jdr

Just keep sending the money to us, we need a high speed train along the coast. :sunglasses:

Dick Dasterdly

Makes no sense to me either.

I was good friends with a director of one of the UKs top civil engineering companies.

In order to save money he used to make regular trips across to Rotterdam to buy large quantities of brand new plant/machinery and bring it back to the UK, despite the fact that it was manufactured and sold at a factory and depot fairly close to his UK office.

Dick Dasterdly

Yeh, now the supply of EU money has slowed right down, in addition to the building industry collapse, Spains stomach is of the opinion that its throat has just been cut.

HBG

I'm interested in this thread and just started typing when I heard the footsteps of a Closer (not you, Mitz) coming down the hall. What's the point?

Dick Dasterdly

A View of Merkel from Germany



The Local - Germany's news in English
25th November 2011
Welcome to The Local's weekly roundup of news.

It isn't easy being German chancellor these days.

For months, Angela Merkel was accused of failing to provide leadership during Europe's sovereign debt crisis. But after she prescribed austerity for debt-hit eurozone members, rejected issuing joint eurobonds and blocked making the European Central Bank as a lender of last resort, it now appears as if many in Europe preferred her previous lack of engagement.

And as the crisis has festered in recent weeks, ugly images of a bossy Germany have sprouted up from Athens to London.

Part of the British press, never keen to miss a chance to trot out tired Nazi clichés, has tastelessly made references to a Fourth Reich and portrayed German leaders as dictating terms to the rest of the Continent. The Greeks have even taken to putting Merkel in a Nazi uniform along with their liberal use of swastikas at demonstrations.

Despite the cheap attacks - and some solid arguments for eurobonds - the German government's line has stayed firm: Berlin does not want to put more German taxpayer money on the line until Greece, Portugal and Italy put their finances in order. Jointly issuing debt would undoubtedly raise German borrowing costs - while potentially taking the pressure off more profligate countries.

The Germans are also extremely leery of making the ECB a so-called lender of last resort for euro members unable to borrow on the jittery financial markets. Amid collective memories of hyperinflation between the wars, Germany remains the strongest advocate against having the central bank print money with abandon.

Germany's economy has so far remained relatively unscathed by the debt crisis, but a poorly received bond auction this week set off a few alarm bells in Berlin. While the Finance Ministry played down the significance, some investors are apparently now looking to bond safe havens outside the eurozone.

There are good reasons against issuing eurobonds and making the ECB a lender of last resort, but many economists now consider either one or the other will be necessary to keep the eurozone from breaking apart.

And the longer the debt crisis continues the fewer options Merkel would seem to have.

Link not working I'm afraid so its a case of cut and paste, origin shown.

megmet

And just how much would it cost the UK when we expats no longer had the right to live in Europe and had to return?

There would have to be a mass exodus back to the UK, councils would have to provide housing for the thousands of homeless returnees.
The government would have to pay benefits that we don't get here but would be entitled to once residents of the UK, they would also have to stand the cost of so many more people using the health service....my guess is it would collapse under the weight.

For every action there is a reaction....but those shouting for the UK to leave Europe seldom think of the inevitable consequences!

Dick Dasterdly

Yeh, for every action there is a reaction and if we did leave the EU I don't for one moment see your prophesy of doom coming true.

I have little doubt it would be in the best interests of both countries to come up with a satisfactory arrangement to deal with the consequences.

agoreira

No, me neither, a "never likely to happen" prophesy. There are plenty of non EU nationalities living in the EU, would they all have to leave as well? Americans heading home to the States etc? I like the assumption that they'd all come back broke and qualify for all benefits and would be handed a council house.

jackytoo

It was possible to be resident before Spain was a full member of the EU. Just had to prove you had enough income to live there. Getting permission to work there would be almost impossible though. Suppose getting in the health system wouldn't be possible either.

Can't see it happening though, the EU would be cutting off it's nose etc. getting shot of the UK.

agoreira

If there ever was a vote to leave the EU,(unlikely!) the vast majority of the people voting would be from the UK, and of course they wouldn't worry about what happened to expats living in the EU. A harsh reality, but true, their only interest would in the UK itself, that's the reason they'd want out. The EU maintains trading agreements with dozens of countries around the world, the UK would be no different. Our trade deficit with the EU is 3 billion a month, can you see them suddenly stopping trading with us? We've been a trading nation for hundreds of years, the idea that we wouldn't survive outside of the EU is a bit far fetched.
Re living in Spain before joining the EU, permission to work, sufficient income etc, that would work both ways presumably, there are a huge number of people from the EU working, living and drawing benefits in UK, would that all change?

Mitzyboy

It does seem crazy, but the rates in Rotterdam for freight are much cheaper than the UK. We used to sent 12 m trailers from the UK to Rotterdam and load the containers there. All the documentation that we did (that is used for export statistics) had to show the final destination, not Rotterdam

agoreira

And it gets even more complicated at times! You'd understand the contents of this link better than me, but there are some strange things going on at times.

http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2010/11/u...terdam-effect/

Mitzyboy

Tell me about it!
In some ways though this is just international trade isnt it?
Back in the day I used to act as ships chandler to GNMTC, the Libyan National Line. Libyans didnt like Americans, or anything to do with them ......
The UK used to import American goods, and then the crates were re branded and loaded on board Libyan vessels. Coca Cola was the favoured drink on board I knows thats extreme, but in many countries buy products with the intention of pushing them on elsewhere

But I agree, it can be totally confusing, and in the EU it could be equally so one day if it becomes more and more integrated. Imagine the EU set up like the United States of America!!!!! What a thought