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Merkel and Cameron.

Merkel and Cameron.

Old Nov 21st 2011, 5:35 pm
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Default Re: Merkel and Cameron.

I read on this and other forums about the importance of voting in the party of your choice, I believe here in Spain as in the UK many people have the same problem as I do, who do you vote for. Certainly in the UK the two main parties are utterly useless and interested in one thing, themselves. One party scared of it´s own shadow the other so corrupt that they would fit in perfectly in Spain. I think that the same applies here, both rubbish. So if you are as disillusioned with the tat that calls themselves honourable members who do you vote for or is it time that a don´t vote majority might waken up the sad little people that call themselves politicians. Let´s face it this lot, UK, did not even manage a majority and the ones here will probably stir up so much trouble that civil strife, not war, could happen.

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Old Nov 21st 2011, 7:22 pm
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Default Re: Merkel and Cameron.

I watched Cameron and Clegg strolling around a building site today with funny hats; the country needs a million new homes and they've started building them today. It's going to take them 56 years.

I'm not an economist, but surely it would be a lot cheaper to send all the unemployed to Spain and pay rent for them to move into the million empty houses here? The UK could pay them their dole money and other benefits here and the whole package would be a lot cheaper than building a million houses back home.

Conservative hands across the sea? It's a win win situation for both Spain and the UK. And for all those Brits suffering with bad backs and depression, they would be better off in the sun. They might even get cured.
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Old Nov 25th 2011, 9:37 am
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Default Re: Merkel and Cameron.

Jeez, almost every time I switch on the Spanish news channel the first thing I ever seem to see is Merkel and Sarkozy kissing and slavering all over each other.
Judging by the body language I'm sure there's a bit more to those two on meets the eye.
Anybody think maybe he's giving her a one on the sly ?
It seems that the two of them have the whole EU job sewn up between them whilst the rest are simply there to take orders and make up the number.
Meanwhile poor old Cameron would obviously love to have a piece of the action and be accepted as a member of an eternal triangle, but unfortunately saying all the wrong things, getting the cold shoulder and repeatedly being snubbed.
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Old Nov 25th 2011, 10:09 am
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Default Re: Merkel and Cameron.

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post
It seems that the two of them have the whole EU job sewn up between them whilst the rest are simply there to take orders and make up the number.
According to Farage, Germany is certainly dominating the EU.
http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/1230...manada-hienas/
Strange to see the Spanish press linking to one of his speeches, although reading the posts following the article, most seem to be singing his praises, many mentions of cojones!
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Old Nov 25th 2011, 11:35 am
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Default Re: Merkel and Cameron.

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post
Meanwhile poor old Cameron would obviously love to have a piece of the action and be accepted as a member of an eternal triangle, but unfortunately saying all the wrong things, getting the cold shoulder and repeatedly being snubbed.
I hope he does continue to say all the wrong things. Would be great if they kicked the UK out
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Old Nov 25th 2011, 11:57 am
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Default Re: Merkel and Cameron.

Originally Posted by jackytoo View Post
Would be great if they kicked the UK out
Brilliant, but I can't see it happening! In the last 32 years we've continued to pay in billions more than we've had back, so unfortunately they're hardly likely to kick us out. It's costing us 50 million a day, we continue to pay more and more, and get less and less back, whilst Merkozy attempt to run the show on their own.
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Old Nov 25th 2011, 1:50 pm
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Default Re: Merkel and Cameron.

Originally Posted by jackytoo View Post
I hope he does continue to say all the wrong things. Would be great if they kicked the UK out
Well yes I see the point, but do you realise how much of UK trade is now with EU countries as opposed to the rest of the world?

We'd be in for a severe stuffing I fear if we came out
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Old Nov 25th 2011, 2:33 pm
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Default Re: Merkel and Cameron.

I think short term pain, long term gain. The trade with Europe is not as great as is portrayed and a lot of the products they would still need to buy. There are world trade agreements to cover this. The billions saved every year would cover the cost of opening up new markets and investment. VAT would/could be reduced too.

The alternative is a Europe that will be in recession for years and they will not be in a position to buy much at all anyway.
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Old Nov 25th 2011, 3:23 pm
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Default Re: Merkel and Cameron.

Originally Posted by jackytoo View Post
I think short term pain, long term gain. The trade with Europe is not as great as is portrayed and a lot of the products they would still need to buy. There are world trade agreements to cover this. The billions saved every year would cover the cost of opening up new markets and investment. VAT would/could be reduced too.

The alternative is a Europe that will be in recession for years and they will not be in a position to buy much at all anyway.
I don't buy into this argument either that we'll be stuffed by leaving the EU. We buy more from the EU than we sell to them, they'll want to continue selling us stuff, and do they imagine we'll keep on buying if they suddenly stop buying from us. They need us more than we need them, we'd save a fortune by getting out. Besides, Article 50 of Lisbon requires the EU to make a trade arrangement with any nation deciding to leave it. Leaving the EU would not affect our membership of the G8 and G20, our seats on the UN Security Council, the World Trade Organisation or the IMF. We have the 6th largest economy in the world, much smaller countries than us manage OK, I think we'd manage. We'd get our 200 mile fishing limit back at a stroke, lots of EU fishermen would go broke without our waters to fish in.
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Old Nov 25th 2011, 3:49 pm
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Default Re: Merkel and Cameron.

Originally Posted by agoreira View Post
I don't buy into this argument either that we'll be stuffed by leaving the EU. We buy more from the EU than we sell to them, they'll want to continue selling us stuff, and do they imagine we'll keep on buying if they suddenly stop buying from us. They need us more than we need them, we'd save a fortune by getting out.
Really?

Main export partners United States 14.3%, Germany 10.5%, Netherlands 8.0%, France 7.2%, Ireland 6.0%, Belgium and Luxembourg 5.1%, Spain 3.7%, Italy 3.3%, China 3.2% (2010, not including services)

Main import partners Germany 12.5%, China 8.4%, United States 7.6%, Netherlands 7.3%, France 6.0%, Norway 5.7%, Belgium and Luxembourg 5.0%, Italy 3.9%, Ireland 3.4% (2010, not including services)

Theres not that much in it.
To be fair I take your point but it is a fairly simplistic view of it. The European Union is supposed to be, amongst other things, a group of trading partners. If one leaves that trading partnership then of course pressure will be bought to bear within the remaining partnership to trade with other partners.

But at the end of the day none of really know, do we. The only thing we do know is that noises are already being made by the main members of the eurozone about the UK, and those noises no doubt will only get louder as time goes by
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Old Nov 25th 2011, 4:13 pm
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Default Re: Merkel and Cameron.

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post
Jeez, almost every time I switch on the Spanish news channel the first thing I ever seem to see is Merkel and Sarkozy kissing and slavering all over each other.
Judging by the body language I'm sure there's a bit more to those two on meets the eye.
Anybody think maybe he's giving her a one on the sly ?
It seems that the two of them have the whole EU job sewn up between them whilst the rest are simply there to take orders and make up the number.
Meanwhile poor old Cameron would obviously love to have a piece of the action and be accepted as a member of an eternal triangle, but unfortunately saying all the wrong things, getting the cold shoulder and repeatedly being snubbed.
He could easily get her onside by taking her to the charity shop to buy another coat as she is clearly a regular in her local outlet.
Did you see that grey rag she had on the other day ?
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Old Nov 25th 2011, 4:30 pm
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Default Re: Merkel and Cameron.

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy View Post
Really?

Main export partners United States 14.3%, Germany 10.5%, Netherlands 8.0%, France 7.2%, Ireland 6.0%, Belgium and Luxembourg 5.1%, Spain 3.7%, Italy 3.3%, China 3.2% (2010, not including services)

Main import partners Germany 12.5%, China 8.4%, United States 7.6%, Netherlands 7.3%, France 6.0%, Norway 5.7%, Belgium and Luxembourg 5.0%, Italy 3.9%, Ireland 3.4% (2010, not including services)

Theres not that much in it.
To be fair I take your point but it is a fairly simplistic view of it. The European Union is supposed to be, amongst other things, a group of trading partners. If one leaves that trading partnership then of course pressure will be bought to bear within the remaining partnership to trade with other partners.

But at the end of the day none of really know, do we. The only thing we do know is that noises are already being made by the main members of the eurozone about the UK, and those noises no doubt will only get louder as time goes by
I think if we were to look up ten different sources, we'd get 10 sets of figures, although it's generally reckoned it's around 60% TO 40%, imports versus exports to EU. However, it's changing, we are doing less business now as a percentage with the EU, and more with places like USA and China. I've mentioned the Rotterdam Effect before, where the UK exports goods abroad through Rotterdam, although they are destined for places like China etc. They show up as exports to EU , but they simply pass through there and of course picking up an EU charge as they go. Many of UK exports would go straight to the buyer if we left the EU, and be cheaper. As the link below says,
Nowadays, though, even the unadjusted figures tell of the EU’s decline. Never mind the Netherlands: we sell as much to China as we do to Spain, and more than to Italy. Our exports to the US, easily our largest market, have surged to £3.67 billion, up £744 million since December. Even without the Rotterdam Effect, our non-EU exports in February were worth £100 million more than our sales to the EU.
Of course the EU is an important market for us, but I fail to see how we would end up far worse by getting out, it's cost us billions to belong to it.
This guy is an MEP, he knows the EU inside out, he makes a lot of sense.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...ou-measure-it/

Last edited by agoreira; Nov 25th 2011 at 4:35 pm.
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Old Nov 25th 2011, 4:59 pm
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Default Re: Merkel and Cameron.

Originally Posted by agoreira View Post
I think if we were to look up ten different sources, we'd get 10 sets of figures, although it's generally reckoned it's around 60% TO 40%, imports versus exports to EU. However, it's changing, we are doing less business now as a percentage with the EU, and more with places like USA and China. I've mentioned the Rotterdam Effect before, where the UK exports goods abroad through Rotterdam, although they are destined for places like China etc. They show up as exports to EU , but they simply pass through there and of course picking up an EU charge as they go. Many of UK exports would go straight to the buyer if we left the EU, and be cheaper. As the link below says,
Of course the EU is an important market for us, but I fail to see how we would end up far worse by getting out, it's cost us billions to belong to it.
This guy is an MEP, he knows the EU inside out, he makes a lot of sense.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...ou-measure-it/
Good post and link.
I'm of the view we'd be just as well out of it and maybe get back some of our independance and pride.
We did alright for several centuries without being tied to their apron strings.
If a vote or survey was held tomorrow I'm sure that the majority of Brits would want out.
Look just how much it's costing to run this top heavy shambles of an organisation and yet they're expecting a huge increase in contributions this next year to keep their useless fat cats in clover, just one of the things Cameron is making a stand against.

Despite the supposed free trade agreement there are numerous cases of member countries deliberately putting endless red tape in the way of UK products whilst bending the rules for their own companies.
Also an excellent point regarding the fisheries.
Mucking those away was a National disgrace.
Norway had much more sense and continues to benefit quite substantially from not parting with them thank you very much, whilst still enjoying similar trading agreements as EU member countries.
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Old Nov 25th 2011, 5:06 pm
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Default Re: Merkel and Cameron.

Originally Posted by agoreira View Post
I think if we were to look up ten different sources, we'd get 10 sets of figures, although it's generally reckoned it's around 60% TO 40%, imports versus exports to EU. However, it's changing, we are doing less business now as a percentage with the EU, and more with places like USA and China. I've mentioned the Rotterdam Effect before, where the UK exports goods abroad through Rotterdam, although they are destined for places like China etc. They show up as exports to EU , but they simply pass through there and of course picking up an EU charge as they go. Many of UK exports would go straight to the buyer if we left the EU, and be cheaper. As the link below says,
Of course the EU is an important market for us, but I fail to see how we would end up far worse by getting out, it's cost us billions to belong to it.
This guy is an MEP, he knows the EU inside out, he makes a lot of sense.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...ou-measure-it/
I'm not sure that the "Rotterdam effect" you mention is correct (coming from an Ex Customs Officer and someone who spent all their life in the shipping industry). Historically, statistics are compiled from export documentation, and that will show the final destination, not Rotterdam as a transit port. Many shippers dont even realise their goods didnt leave from the UK directly. I think you will find though that if it did exist it would cancel itself out. Goods coming from outside the EU arrive at Antwerp & Rotterdam and are transhipped to the UK on the same transit ships that take the exports out, so its a sort of swings and roundabouts issue

I know this by the way because we used to tranship a lot of cargo via our agents in Rotterdam because for some crazy reason it was cheaper to do so than send it direct
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Old Nov 25th 2011, 5:40 pm
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Default Re: Merkel and Cameron.

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy View Post
I'm not sure that the "Rotterdam effect" you mention is correct (coming from an Ex Customs Officer and someone who spent all their life in the shipping industry). Historically, statistics are compiled from export documentation, and that will show the final destination, not Rotterdam as a transit port. Many shippers dont even realise their goods didnt leave from the UK directly. I think you will find though that if it did exist it would cancel itself out. Goods coming from outside the EU arrive at Antwerp & Rotterdam and are transhipped to the UK on the same transit ships that take the exports out, so its a sort of swings and roundabouts issue

I know this by the way because we used to tranship a lot of cargo via our agents in Rotterdam because for some crazy reason it was cheaper to do so than send it direct

I'm sure you're right in what you say, however as it says in the link,
Even without the Rotterdam Effect, our non-EU exports in February were worth £100 million more than our sales to the EU.
I've no idea how it works out in practice, however you would think that if we imported/exported direct to say, China, cutting out Rotterdam, it would be far cheaper. The extra time and expense of unloading and reloading at Rotterdam seems crazy.
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