pablovicente

I do not have new informaton other than the newspapers and my personal thoughts, but the liquidation process for such a big company may take a long time. It usually does and this is the highest liquidaton process in Spain ever. It is not only that the judicial process may be (very) slow, but also you need to find investors interested in buying "blocks" of the company as a whole, that are always preferable, then these investors would need to make their due dlligence as everybody knows MF was overestmatng their assets in its accounts; then the investors (if any) will try to make a ridiculous offer to take advantage of the liquidaton but on the other hand liquidators (3) and creditors (banks) will try to get as much money as possible...and so on. Maybe Costa Esuri will be lucky enough to find a big company interested in this urbanization soon, in this sense, the fact that there is an important English communty (and so, potentially more English people coming), and the fact that there is an EUC still working (not for so long though) even before the area has been receptioned by the Town Hall is a good point, but still, it will take some time for sure.

MikeJ

Thanks, I understand - and I thought that Brits were pessimists

guesswork

The State Will Lose €1,000m From Martinsa's Liquidation | Aura Real Estate Experts

Jon-Bxl

Interesting, thanks. I realise that there is a legal action underway re the validity of the EUC...by yourself representing a group of residents.

But until that is settled, and the court has had its say, do Fadesa have any say on the EUC board/management.... or do they even 'exist' now that they have failed, please?

I am wondering if (and 'fishing' to see if..) this is an opportunity for us in some way re running the EUC.

Thanks

Jon

EMR

There is a what was designed to be a prestige resort overlooking Albufeira. it has been finished but derelict now for over 5 years since the Spanish developer went bust.
Still no signs of resolution for the many who can only look through the fence at the properties they bought in good faith.
Maybe the Chinese will appear in Spain if the inducements are there, they have been very active in Portugal .

EsuriJohn

You will be here for the EUC AGM in March and we would hope that you attend and also that your community president attends and votes.

This year the whole board is up for re-election and it is important that all those eligible to vote do so to change for the better who runs the EUC and how.

Fadesa are still a danger since the AGM is so close there will not have been any changes by then but it is clear that if those eligible particularly plot owners turn up and vote Fadesa can be outvoted.

Jon-Bxl

Hi John. I don't really understand the system in Spain in this situation.

How can MF still be a 'danger' if they don't 'exist'..? And if the board members aren't getting paid salary (or travel expenses) to go to the meeting.... and aren't representing anything that they own.... Why will they be there? And do they even have a vote/say, hence do they exist?

I'm happy to go to the meeting... but I'm not allowed to speak, and I very much doubt that many IC presidents have had a poll to ask residents their thoughts. They will most probably go with what they think is right - and if a polled-vote from the IC went against their wishes, they would probably not fight it hard in the meeting.

You have a right-to-speak as a villa owner... but we others in appartments/townhouses are hamstrung.. and have been ever since this awful EUC organisation was born!

Good discussion over a Spanish fishbowl G+T
Jon

MikeJ

To be fair Jon, whatever you may think of the EUC's management and its hijacking of the statutes, they have done a reasonable job. Up to 30 subcontracted (via Confortservi I think) maintenance and gardeners have kept CE looking habitable and therefore preserved some of the value of your property. Without the EUC CE would have reverted to a wasteland like many other abandoned developments and your apartment would be worthless. If the EUC goes (and its tax raising powers with it) then Lord only knows what will happen. At least 30 local people will join the dole queue. Be careful what you wish for - you may get it. I know that this has been discussed ad nauseum on other threads so I won't bang on any more. . We can discuss at the Monday Club

EsuriJohn

A Spanish lawyer friend and PabloVincente have both said that things move very slowly in Bankruptcy and have to be approved by the the commercial judge at each stage. Best estimate is at least a year for both side to draw up their troops and agree due diligence. So although MF cannot trade they will still exist until the liquidators (3) have got themselves in position. We will only know at the meeting who turns up to represent who. Last time it was poor Paulo who must have been embarrassed at what went on but had to sit through it. This time I shall be there if nothing else to gaze in wonder at it all. BUT most importantly to vote to elect a proper board to represent ESURIANS and not Fadesa or the Town Hall or self interest.!

pablovicente

Answering Jon-Bxl and confirming what EsuriJohn says, for commercial law in Spain a company may be dissolved and in liquidation, but that does not mean it does not exist, actually it keeps its legal status until the bankruptcy process and the liquidation is completely finished. The consequences of the dissolution are basically, that the company ceases in its ordinary day-to-day activities and the directors and administrators are substituted by the liquidators (3 liquidators: probably 1 from KPMG, 1 lawyer and a representative of the major creditor -SAREB). But the company still has the obligation to defend the interest of the creditors, for example, it has to still fight the lawsuits MF has all over Spain for breach of contract and so on.

The commercial judge has not accepted the liquidation yet and still has not decided about who will be the liquidators. In any case, Bankruptcy will last at the very least 3 to 4 years. Thus, as you can understand, by March 26th MF will be on its feet. Although, to be honest, I do not get what interest could have MF to appoint a member to the EUC committee for the next 4 years, and which person would agree to take that role on behalf of MF...

By the way, if owners get the power to manage and run the EUC after the March 26th meeting, they should decide if they prefer either to run or to dissolve the EUC, since they would have the power to do so as well, specially now that MF will not have the motivation of keeping the connivance with the Town Hall anymore (and that the Town Hall has not any vote power)...These are just an owner's son thoughts, not my lawyer thoughts.

To MikeJ, EUC has performed its job, true. Someone (not me) could say though that they did the job poorly and overbilling in more than 100% the fees of the administrators (mayor's friends) over the years, and still it would be, probably, a fair view as well. Anyway, what I must disagree is in the asseveration of the consequences of not having the EUC working. We have a very close case -Isla Canela. As you know, there is an EUC there. It worked from 2001 to 2005, then, the owners blocked it. It still exists, but it does not work at all since then and it is the TownHall who takes care of the maintenance, with no cost to the owners. As you may know as well, the Town Hall has decided to restart the EUC of Isla Canela again now. This time, it seems the owners will block it again. Consequences: Isla Canela is perfectly maintained... In Costa Esuri, there is no power or lobby power from the owners' side though. The CERA does a good job in the community, but when dealing with the Town Hall, there may be conflicts of interests.
Eventually, it is just a question of who has the legal obligation of taking care of the maintenance; it is not that if the owners do not pay for that, noone will do it. Actually, owners already do pay for that with the "legitimate" and "no few" taxes...

But yes, this is an already discussed issue, and I understand other views as well, specially coming from foreign owners.

MikeJ

Isla Canela is often quoted but it is a somewhat different case. Perhaps we could look an another example:

Sitio de Calahonda. Oficina de la EUC Calahonda. - Mijas Costa, Málaga

As you can see it appears to be a well run democratic organisation which is doing well for it's owners.
For the life of me I cannot see where Ayamonte - who couldn't pay its own municipal servants last year which resulted in Police strikes - is going to find the money to maintain Costa Esuri (if it already has the burden of Isla Canela where many more voter live)
And this is nothing to do with being a foreigner - it is just financial logic. And perhaps some pessimism

pablovicente

...Yes, it is a much better example an EUC in Calahonda, Malaga...(seriously?) having a look to its webpage to demonstrate how nice an (other) EUC works, than the example of Isla Canela in Ayamonte (the same Town Hall and 10 kms away from Costa Esuri) to show that the Ayamonte Town Hall would take care of the maintenance if owners do not do it and still have a very nice maintenance.

And it has the burden of Isla Canela and the rest of Ayamonte township because it has to have the burden since it is a legal obligation the Town Hall has and the locals already pay their taxes for that. It is not a favour for which we should be very grateful. Furthermore, it is not true that there are (many) more voters in Isla Canela. Mike, I respect your opinion and I would have better bought the argument that Isla Canela is in the coast while Costa Esuri it is not, but I do not get (AT ALL) your arguments and financial logic, neither today nor in the past. I do get your thoughts and pessimsm though. I won`t have a discussion with you regarding the same issue here again. I will go to Ayamonte the end of March as well, may be, like Jon, we could discuss it in person

AndyS

AndyS

John,
Am going to send you a PM about this.
Regards
Andy

MikeJ

Yes seriously. And it's more than just a look at the web site - I have stayed there on a number of occasions and know people who own property there and I looked through some of their annual reports in some detail - did you? So again - YES SERIOUSLY.
Mind you it doesn't have much to live up to vs CE EUC