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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by VFR
(Post 12945218)
Come on lets face facts Big Pharma are the ones working hard and profit $$$$$ is all they care about.
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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
New Covid variant blamed for sharp rise in casesA Covid sign in the London borough of Waltham Forest today CREDIT: JEFF MOOREA new strain of coronavirus has been identified - and it could be driving the spread of Covid in the south east of England. All London boroughs and parts of Essex and Hertfordshire go into the toughest Tier 3 restrictions from one minute past midnight on Wednesday |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by VFR
(Post 12945218)
Come on lets face facts Big Pharma are the ones working hard and profit $$$$$ is all they care about.
I got sick from Hep A/B shot and from rabies shot. These are well tested drugs. You have done many months of lockdown like most of us have in EU. Waiting for the vaccine to be used for longer period may keep you home for years. You may not be able to fly or attend any event. |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by Thairetired2016
(Post 12946145)
You know that not only Big Pharma gets rich on these vaccines. (So tell me who else is selling them ?) They also make lots of money on any of the drugs you buy. (No shit) So do tobacco companies, breweries. You still buy it. (If I choose to & as you say below you may soon have no choice)
I got sick from Hep A/B shot and from rabies shot. These are well tested drugs. You have done many months of lockdown like most of us have in EU. Waiting for the vaccine to be used for longer period may keep you home for years. You may not be able to fly or attend any event. You are clearly happy to take their word about this vaccine but I am not, for sure I may well be forced into taking it at some stage but I will leave it as long as I can, so please get yours done ASAP and all like minded people as well as any issues will likely show through sooner. |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Exactly what is it that people think is going to happen with the vaccine? Do you think it will give you cancer? Make you dyslexic? There are no doubt numerous things out there that contribute to ill health out there that we dont obsess about. The negative side of the vaccine will be its effectiveness. Sure some people might have reactions to it but people have reactions to many things but that doesn't make poisonous or labelled dangerous. I say if you choose not to get vaccinated then if you fall ill you should not have the right to public health care. That's seems fair. People at the front line risk being infected because they choose to help others. If you feel that you dont trust the science then its selfish to ask for people who do believe in the science to put themselves at risk helping you.
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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by Chipmonk
(Post 12946332)
Exactly what is it that people think is going to happen with the vaccine? Do you think it will give you cancer? Make you dyslexic? There are no doubt numerous things out there that contribute to ill health out there that we dont obsess about. The negative side of the vaccine will be its effectiveness. Sure some people might have reactions to it but people have reactions to many things but that doesn't make poisonous or labelled dangerous. I say if you choose not to get vaccinated then if you fall ill you should not have the right to public health care. That's seems fair. People at the front line risk being infected because they choose to help others. If you feel that you dont trust the science then its selfish to ask for people who do believe in the science to put themselves at risk helping you.
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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by missile
(Post 12946336)
:goodpost: "if you fall ill you should not have the right to public health care" .... That is a bit harsh :eek:
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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by Chipmonk
(Post 12946332)
Exactly what is it that people think is going to happen with the vaccine? Do you think it will give you cancer? Make you dyslexic? There are no doubt numerous things out there that contribute to ill health out there that we dont obsess about. The negative side of the vaccine will be its effectiveness. Sure some people might have reactions to it but people have reactions to many things but that doesn't make poisonous or labelled dangerous. I say if you choose not to get vaccinated then if you fall ill you should not have the right to public health care. That's seems fair. People at the front line risk being infected because they choose to help others. If you feel that you dont trust the science then its selfish to ask for people who do believe in the science to put themselves at risk helping you.
Originally Posted by Chipmonk
(Post 12946339)
If you get Covid and have refused the vaccine why should you recieve the time and energy of those who have to open themselves up to risk because of your beliefs especially if hospitals are struggling to cope? . In fact, why on earth would you want these people to help you , as no doubt they will be pumping you full of evil medicines, designed by evil drug firms ? Anyway it's all a big hoax!
Rosemary |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by Rosemary
(Post 12946345)
Very strong statements from someone who obviously has no idea what it is like for people who suffer from severe allergies to some medications which puts them in a position of having to refuse the vaccine. It is not a choice, nor a chosen belief and nor is it because they are likely to suffer a reaction that can be shrugged off as not important but in fact a reaction that could kill them. It is not about not trusting the science, it is not selfish, it is a matter of being sensible and trying not to be a burden on health givers. So their choice might well have to be to take precautions to stop themselves getting covid and not have the vaccine. Risking not receiving health care under your scenario or risking the possibility of killing themselves by having the vaccine means that they are in a no win situation.
Rosemary |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Oh come off it Chipmonk! Next you will be advocating for those with Cancer, Emphysema, PTSD Etc. to be left to their own devices as there may have been a preventable component and the sufferer should therefore bear the consequence. It all sounds a bit Hysterical.
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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
All the people who have smoked and drank alcohol would in your world be condemned to die out of sight of the services provided to others.
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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by jonboy
(Post 12946363)
All the people who have smoked and drank alcohol would in your world be condemned to die out of sight of the services provided to others.
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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by Chipmonk
(Post 12946364)
Are any of those things life threatening to others? No ! If you smoked all your life and you have cancer then you wont give it to a nurse,will you? But if you have Covid you may. If you refuse a vaccine, catch the virus, go to hospital you endanger other people's lives!!
Kaipa |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by Rosemary
(Post 12946345)
Very strong statements from someone who obviously has no idea what it is like for people who suffer from severe allergies to some medications which puts them in a position of having to refuse the vaccine. It is not a choice, nor a chosen belief and nor is it because they are likely to suffer a reaction that can be shrugged off as not important but in fact a reaction that could kill them. It is not about not trusting the science, it is not selfish, it is a matter of being sensible and trying not to be a burden on health givers. So their choice might well have to be to take precautions to stop themselves getting covid and not have the vaccine. Risking not receiving health care under your scenario or risking the possibility of killing themselves by having the vaccine means that they are in a no win situation.
Rosemary Indeed I have a very strong allergic reaction to iodine, but happily take several other medications. The report I have read said 12 people had died whilst on a Covid-19 trial. These were all patients who had been prescribed the placebo. None of those receiving the vaccine died. |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by missile
(Post 12946387)
All medications have potential side affects, covid-19 vaccine is no different. Those who have allergies to one medication are right to be concerned. This should be discussed with their doctor. It is not correct to suggest those having an allergy to one medication should necessarily avoid taking all other medications e.g. covid-19 vaccine.
Indeed I have a very strong allergic reaction to iodine, but happily take several other medications. The report I have read said 12 people had died whilst on a Covid-19 trial. These were all patients who had been prescribed the placebo. None of those receiving the vaccine died. Rosemary |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by Rosemary
(Post 12946421)
Exactly. So much is still unknown about how people will react to it. Taking any medication should be done with due care, all are potential life savers for the majority of people but for others they can be dangerous. The flu jab is utilised to good effect but some years the format has meant that some people were not able to have it so it will probably be the same with the Covid one. Different scientists, different formats, different reactions. Normal. That is life.
Rosemary Surely it all comes down to the degree of risk involved. At which point do you consider a vaccine safe as there will always be some percentage of persons who have adverse reactions? Nothing is 100% perfect. The question that people need to ask is what the chance of contracting Covid and being dangerously ill versus the chances of having a seriously dangerous reaction to the vaccine. As far as the world of vaccines goes there are very very few cases ( rotavirus is the only one I found that is thought to cause a major illness) where the vaccine harms you compared to the virus it fights. If you never take the vaccine you will always be susceptible to the virus. It makes sense to take it no? |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Interesting video here for those not Pfizer fan boys .................
https://www.c-span.org/video/?507035...covid-19&live= The question should be but you will not hear being asked on MSM is ............ How many people have died last week ? Of those deaths how many were positive for the virus ? Of those deaths how many were a result of the virus ? No all they will scream is about the R rate knowing that ever more people are being tested so it will rise but also knowing that the vast bulk will have no, or very mild, symptoms. I read that its normal for a new vaccine to take "years" to get onto the approved list not months and if they are so sure about its safety why are the manufactures immune in law from prosecution (again so I read) |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by VFR
(Post 12946479)
Interesting video here for those not Pfizer fan boys .................
https://www.c-span.org/video/?507035...covid-19&live= The question should be but you will not hear being asked on MSM is ............ How many people have died last week ? Of those deaths how many were positive for the virus ? Of those deaths how many were a result of the virus ? No all they will scream is about the R rate knowing that ever more people are being tested so it will rise but also knowing that the vast bulk will have no, or very mild, symptoms. I read that its normal for a new vaccine to take "years" to get onto the approved list not months and if they are so sure about its safety why are the manufactures immune in law from prosecution (again so I read) The video is 2.5 hours long !! |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by Chipmonk
(Post 12946484)
The video is 2.5 hours long !!
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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
I listened to James O'Brien on LBC this morning and there was a caller who works as a carer in a Care Home. She said that the 18 residents had been offered the jab but that only 2 had accepted.
She was upset because there has been a lot of effort put in to protecting the residents and this was an opportunity that would allow them more contact with their families but they were refusing it out of fear. |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by Chipmonk
(Post 12946332)
Exactly what is it that people think is going to happen with the vaccine? Do you think it will give you cancer? Make you dyslexic? There are no doubt numerous things out there that contribute to ill health out there that we dont obsess about. The negative side of the vaccine will be its effectiveness. Sure some people might have reactions to it but people have reactions to many things but that doesn't make poisonous or labelled dangerous. I say if you choose not to get vaccinated then if you fall ill you should not have the right to public health care. That's seems fair. People at the front line risk being infected because they choose to help others. If you feel that you dont trust the science then its selfish to ask for people who do believe in the science to put themselves at risk helping you.
Steve |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by tebo53
(Post 12946595)
Now that's a silly statement as according to you the vaccine will be protective of those who have it and I assume that the "people at the front line" will be offered it first. I will wait for a while before I get mine and don't need advice about medication from you thanks!
Steve |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Sadly we live in an age where people listen to their mate down the pub or some idiot on twitter rather than look at the facts. This vaccine has been developed because of the money and sheer numbers of researchers let loose plus over 40k trials in Europe, 1 million in China. Corners have not been cut thats the reality but some folk won't accept it.
My wife and daughter are nurses and both had their first jab last week and welcomed it. Perhaps if some folk worked a twelve/fourteen hour shift with them their understanding of what the serious nature of covid really is and take the vaccine. Perhaps they'll change their mind when they are not allowed to fly or enter/leave a country which are logical steps to take IMO. A tiny percentage of people won't be able to take it and I do feel sorry for them and the possible restrictions they may face for some years to come. |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
https://www.eldiario.es/sociedad/san...1_6521846.html
Here is something that might be of interest. Although the vaccine is not obligatory in Spain they are considering recording rejections.They suggest nothing sinister but it's not a great leap of imagination to see what it might mean. |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
I see though that there will be anonymity regarding names .
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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by jimenato
(Post 12947364)
The vaccine is not 100% effective though - also there are those who may be unable to take it for various reasons. These people will be put at risk by those simply choosing not to take it.
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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by thegolfer
(Post 12948635)
Why?
Presumably because the less people who are vaccinated the greater the ability for the virus to still be active in the community therefore a greater risk to those unable to use vaccine. The more people who are immune the harder for the virus to spread |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
The so called herd immunity. I have read various figures but 60% seems popular
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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by thegolfer
(Post 12948635)
Why?
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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by bob_bob
(Post 12948709)
The longer the virus is still around the great the opportunity for it to mutate to a point where the vaccine won't work and we're back to square one but with the chance the new version will have a higher mortality rate.
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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by thegolfer
(Post 12948635)
Why?
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Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by jimenato
(Post 12949025)
In addition to the other answers given, those who have chosen not to be vaccinated and subsequently get ill and hospitalised will put healthcare workers at risk if the vaccination hasn't worked for those workers.
Steve |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
My understanding is that the vaccine, at least the one currently used in the UK, does not prevent someone catching the virus or passing it on. It only stops the recipient becoming ill.
If this is true then those colleagues who have had the vaccination will also present a risk to their colleagues. |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by VEDShappy
(Post 12949066)
My understanding is that the vaccine, at least the one currently used in the UK, does not prevent someone catching the virus or passing it on. It only stops the recipient becoming ill.
If this is true then those colleagues who have had the vaccination will also present a risk to their colleagues. The vaccine works in the same way as flu vaccine. It prepares the recipients immune system to recognise and kill the virus if and when the recipient is infected. |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by missile
(Post 12949091)
Your understanding is flawed.
The vaccine works in the same way as flu vaccine. It prepares the recipients immune system to recognise and kill the virus if and when the recipient is infected. This ................. Can you still get infected, and infect others, if you get vaccinated?Possibly. None of the vaccines tested so far have been 100 percent effective so some vaccinated people may still catch the coronavirus.From here ................ https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...k-transmission |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by VFR
(Post 12949097)
Maybe its you understanding ?
This ................. Can you still get infected, and infect others, if you get vaccinated?Possibly. None of the vaccines tested so far have been 100 percent effective so some vaccinated people may still catch the coronavirus.From here ................ https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...k-transmission This is flawed 2+2 does not = 5
Originally Posted by VEDShappy
(Post 12949066)
My understanding is that the vaccine, at least the one currently used in the UK, does not prevent someone catching the virus or passing it on. It only stops the recipient becoming ill.
If this is true then those colleagues who have had the vaccination will also present a risk to their colleagues. |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by tebo53
(Post 12949048)
That's not an argument really though is it as those healthcare workers would be at risk in all situations.
Steve Those unvaccinated people will also be using healthcare resources - beds, ICUs etc. which could be being used for other patients. |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
Originally Posted by missile
(Post 12949091)
Your understanding is flawed.
The vaccine works in the same way as flu vaccine. It prepares the recipients immune system to recognise and kill the virus if and when the recipient is infected. I don't pretend to know all the answers and I certainly don't believe all that I'm told, unlike some. This is just one example, perhaps you'd be kind enough to explain how my understanding is flawed. https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethi...ct-others/amp/ |
Re: Majority of Spaniards will not....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55410349
Well if Tony bLiar says its fine what is there to worry about ? |
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