Lockerbie
 

I for one am delighted to see the Yanks upset about the hero's welcome handed out by Lybia to that poor sod (no I can't spell his name either)

Hands up anyone who can name the country who a) gave Gerry Adams a hero's welcome when the IRA was murdering British citizens, and b) helped raise funds for the said terrorist organisation?

To paraphrase Shakespeare, "Let none say terrorism prosper, for if terrorism is sponsored by a big enogh country, then who dare call it terrorism?"

Re: Lockerbie
 

I suspect you are going to have some opposition here, but I have no problem with him being released as I dont think for a moment he was ever guilty. Neither do most of the UK victims families.

The Americans however clearly have a huge problem with it.

However, they had to get someone for it, and they did.

Re: Lockerbie
 

Matt has got a thread in the lounge going on this subject.

Re: Lockerbie
 

Very true. I'm convinced that the yanks wanted a Lybian scapegoat. I just despise their willingness to support terrorism when it suits them.

I believe that there is a group of Scottish lawyers who are saying the Lybian's conviction was unsafe on a number of grounds.

Re: Lockerbie
 

if he is guilty he is already trapped by his own karma which will out whether he is released or not................if he isnt guilty, then in the next life, i feel he will be compensated for what he has endured............its just the natural law of cause and effect..............

Re: Lockerbie
 

Where please? I looked and couldn't find it.

Re: Lockerbie
 

I'd prefer to see an in depth public investigation.

As if.

Re: Lockerbie
 

What, more virgins, there's soon going to be a world shortage

Re: Lockerbie
 

Where's the fun in 40 virgins?

I'd prefer a couple of dirty women any day.....

Re: Lockerbie
 

It`s now in take it outside, it started out in a thread about scots and the mods split it I think. ;-)
It`s called "the Lockerbie bomber is going home.

Re: Lockerbie
 

I hadn't realised that devolution meant that Scotland now has it's own justice system, but applaud the justice minister for his courage in taking on the mighty US.

Mind you, listening to Obama and Milliband condemn the decision, I thought I could see them both blush. I know it's not considered politically correct to mention oil, but Lybia seems to have rather a lot of it. isn't BP over there at the moment?

Re: Lockerbie
 

What he doesn't know is that the virgins in question are Spotty American Geeks :thumbup:

Re: Lockerbie
 

OK, thanks Jdr.

Don't you worry about all those howling for Magrahi's blood given that there are such doubts being expressed re the safety of his conviction?

Re: Lockerbie
 

Re: Lockerbie
 

That thread seems to have gomne a bit quiet since the hate mongers have had to consider that Magrahi may have been wrongly convicted.

If so, what a damn evil thing to do, to rob a man of the last ten years of his life just because the US wanted a Lybian scapegoat.

Re: Lockerbie
 

Dont you remember the trial, it was a farce. He was guilty before it even started. As I said, they had to find someone guilty and he was chosen. I read somewhere that his family was paid off.

Re: Lockerbie
 

Innocent my arse, the guy was part of a team that performed the worse terrorist attack the UK has ever seen and now the prick has the privilege of dying with his family, a privilege denied the families of the 270 innocent people who never chose to die that day in Lockerbie.

Re: Lockerbie
 

.

I dont think you are in a position to say that with any real credibility mate. the forces that were at large when that trial went on were immense - why have they never found any more of the team do you think? :)

Re: Lockerbie
 

The guy was a former Libyan Intelligence officer Mitz, we are not talking about some newspaper seller who was framed, he worked for their Center For Strategic Studies, what do you think that center specialised in mate?

Re: Lockerbie
 

Now now Mitzy, you know Matt is right. He has access to secret files unknown by mere mortals.

Tell me matt, what is it? Are you so in love with our legal system that you cannot tolerate it being challenged, or so in love with the USA that you think they are god?

I bet you are a hoot on the death penalty eh?

Until you can demonstrate any definite physical evidence that would link Magrahi to the bomb, then all you have is circumstantial evidence which is looking more and more shoddy as time passes.

Reasonable doubt is raised over and over again. Didn't you read the stuff about the breakin at the secure area where the luggage was stored prior to the take off from the UK? Or the fact that the witness said he came into the shop on a rainy day, and M can demonstrate he wasn't in Malta on any dy it was raining?

Re: Lockerbie
 

Prick.


I got as far as this Billy boy and thats all I needed to come to the conclusion that you are a prick.

Re: Lockerbie
 

Oh give over you two :lol:
Just agree to disagree
Neither of us can prove anything.
None of us know what powers were at work during the trial

I just wonder how anyone in that position was going to get a fair trial ...... OK if there was specific evidence then fine. But there wasnt. He was a member of whatever ... part of the Libyan government? Doesnt mean he did the deed

Re: Lockerbie
 

As I understand it the only evidence was that some bloke recognised him as buying the clothes that were found to have been in the suitcase that the bomb was in.
The US needed a patsy.
Al Megari was it.
Personally I doubt he had anything to do it.

Re: Lockerbie
 

The scots have always had their own justice system, it pre-dates the union. Nothing to do with devolution.

Re: Lockerbie
 

Taking on the mighty US?

Are you delusional?

The guy was tried in a court of law, he appealed three times and lost, the Libyans gave him up, he was a secret service agent, the bloke was guilty. now was he solely guilty? Not a chance and I don't doubt for one second that Gadaffi had a hand in it, the bloke is a wanker, but FFS, this is not about the US vs the rest of the free world, its about JUSTICE FOR 270 PEOPLE WHO NEVER HAD THE CHANCE TO SPEND THEIR LAST DAYS WITH THEIR FAMILIES!

Oh and as already said, the Scottish have their own justice system, this is bugger all to do with justice, its ABOUT OIL.

Re: Lockerbie
 

Mitz, poor old Matt simply doesn't do empathy.

(That's the usual cue for some idiot to say that I have no empathy for the victims. Au contraire. I have empathy for both sides. I just don't see how a wrongful conviction does the victims any good.)

Oh yes, Matt, ever heard the term unsafe conviction? The witness was corrupted, the defendant has proof that he was elsewhere on the date the witness alleges, the secure luggage holding area was broken into, - any one of those is enough to create reasonable doubt.

Seriously Matt, let's skip the traditional abuse. Doesn't it bother you that these points could suggest that Megrahi wasn't the man?

Re: Lockerbie
 

Compensation?

Re: Lockerbie
 

Matt he could have appealed 30 times and the result would have been the same because without him the "free world" would have bought no one to task for the attrocity.

When even the victims families dont think he had anything to do with it then something is seriously flawed, because if anyone would be out for justice / revenge it would be them, and I think we should respect what they say also.

History is full of people who were tried, found guilty, even hung .... and then found to be innocent. people who have spent most of their lives behind bars and then released with paltry compensation. When the evidence suggests "innocence" but the jury says guilty, and especially under the prevailing circumstances, there will always be doubt

Re: Lockerbie
 

So answer me the compensation question Mitz.


Am I the only one applying logic to this?

Re: Lockerbie
 

I dont understand what you are applying the word to. Its well known that his family were paid off .... i.e. sacrificial lamb ....... is that what you mean?

Re: Lockerbie
 

The general consensus is that Iran or some other country was involved. If that is the case, why would Libya pay such a massive compensation claim?

Re: Lockerbie
 

the large compensation claim, plus handing over Al Meghari has brought the Lybian state international legitimacy.
It went an enormous way to removing their interntonal pariah status.
Plus they can easily afford it with their massive oil revenues.

Re: Lockerbie
 

OK ........ but in what way does that make this particular individual guilty ...... just because he worked for the Libyan authorities?

Re: Lockerbie
 

Because to such an oil rich country is was a worthwhile expenditure to remove the sanctions on them. It might well have been that Megrahi went to the gallows, as it were as part of a deal with his boss Ghaddafi, with the understanding that he and his family would be compensated, and the case against him was so weak that he would be out on appeal ere long.

They didn't count on his prostate imploding, or that his appeal would be denied.

Matt, don't be like Lord Denning. He once stated, (when asked about prisoners who had been wrongfuly convicted) that it was better that innocent men remain behind bars that British Justice be sullied by having to admit that it had got things wrong.

A mature democracy should be wise enough to realise that on occasions it gets things wrong, and compassionate enough to take that seriously into consideration.

Re: Lockerbie
 

There was sufficient evidence against him to put him away, circumstantial or not, and to result in all of his appeals being turned down. The final appeal, as I understand it, was on the grounds that it is claimed the trail was unfair, not that he was innocent, but that the trail was unfair.


As Bill accused of me, how do you KNOW that he was innocent? Because some people eager to make their names in journalism decided to write a piece claiming he was innocent? Is that honestly how you reach your opinions mitz?

Re: Lockerbie
 

[QUOTE=rugbymatt;7866895]

As Bill accused of me, how do you KNOW that he was innocent? QUOTE]

Head above parapet.... on this one very specific point, I think I agree with Matt - the trial found him guilty beyond all reasonable doubt (guess strictly that's not the same as knowing he was guilty, though>>) However no-one apart from him can know whether or not he's innocent.

Re: Lockerbie
 

Now thats a bit of a twattish thing to say, knowing me as you do :confused:

I dont know that he's innocent. Conversely (trial verdict aside) you dont know he's guilty. Amongst other things I base my opinions on what I remember of the trial. I base it on the very informed opinions of the families of the victims who know far far more about all this than we do. I have no idea what article you are referring to and have read no journalistic pieces about it

Re: Lockerbie
 

Funny how people who think he is innocent kept stumm for 19 years till he was released and did bugger all to help him before.

PS Mitz you`re missing Man ure on Spanish tv. ;-))

Re: Lockerbie
 

No, sorry but you are wrong. From the beginning there were people, including relatives of victims who were deeply unhappy with the result of the trial.

Once again, I make the point. The US said that there was no way the bomb could have been put on the plane post Malta as the baggage was kept in a secure area. Subsequently, it came out that the secure area had been broken into, the padlock had been cut off and the handlers said that there was one more bag in, of a description that matched that of the suitcase containing the bomb.

The witness identified M after having seen an article alleging M was involved which had a pic of M. That alone is enough to damage him as a witness. Then he said it was a rainy day when M came into his store to buy the clothes.

M says he has evidence to prove he was not in Malta on a rainy day.

I reckon there is more to this than meets the eye, but to me there is reasonable doubt here. Bear in mind that there is not, to my knowledge one single piece of evidence that links him to the crime.

Re: Lockerbie
 

So you ACTUALLY know he is innocent right?


Oh and if you look hard Billy Boy you will see that not ALL the victims families felt he was innocent.

Oh but you ALREADY know that Billy Boy don't you!?