Licence of first occupation
 

Read in another thread about offplan properties and difficulties in getting the LFO certificate for new builds so I asked the question and got this response:

"Hi
Unfortunately neither xxxxx nor builder knows when exactly the town hall is going to issue full adress.

Regarding licence of first occupation, the builder has just informed me that these licence is not issued directly when you take over the property, it takes a couple of months. During that period they supply you with water and electricity. Properties in Oasis V have already received/receiving licences of first occupation."

Does this sound normal anyone :huh:

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Same thing happening on our urbanisation. Apparently we can move into the property and use the builders electric supply for no charge until this paperwork is completed. Our bank has said they will give us a mortgage but we don't start making payments until we have the paperwork completed which means we also can live mortgage free for as long as it takes. All this has been confirmed to us by our solicitor and mortgage broker and also by a resident on the urb who moved into his property in January - he is a solicitor! We are currently waiting for confirmation from the builder that we can move in.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Very normal but there is a significant risk that the licence may not be issued for many months or years, during which time you would be relying on the goodwill of the builder for your supplies.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Hi Smarties,

Absolutely normal! But illegal!!!

On three counts, you cannot occupy a property without a LFO, you cannot have a legal water supply without a LFO and you cannot have a legal electricity supply without a LFO.

Regards, :eek:

John.

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Re: Licence of first occupation
 

On a new urb like this the key is in the last sentence - if other identical properties in the same place have received their licences then you know that you will be getting yours at some point.

The people who work at the town hall are always DOWN RIGHT LAZY, and yes they will take several weeks or months to place a rubber stamp in an ink pad and then move it accross and press it down on your licence. There is usually absolutely nothing you can do to speed them up as they are salaried, and not on commission!

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

So would you suggest we pull the plug on the purchase having only paid £2k so far. Its supposed to be ready May and looks like it only needs a wipe down so no worries on that front at least. Just curious as to why if its illegal I can finalise on it?

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Whoa! Slow down! I don´t think you understood John and Kaths post fully. By the sounds of it your property is PERFECTLY LEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!

However, it is technically illegal to occupy a property if you don´t have the LFO. That doesn´t stop everyone from doing it though.

There have been a few instances where people have come acropper(?) by completing on a place without an LFO, and then never getting it. However, if you have bought on an urb and other properties on that urb have had their licences approved then it is just a question of time before the lazy bureaucrats get around to doing yours.

I should relax if I were you. Check that other properties have got their licences (don´t take the agents word for it) and then complete at your leisure.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Hmmm getting twitchy now its coming to the 20% deposit stage. I am flying over again on Tuesday next week for one last look around so will knock on a few doors and get some invaluable feedback I hope, something I could not do on the viewing trip. Thanks Keith :thumbup:

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

You can get a lot of invaluable information on forums like these, but forums are a double edged sword as apart from inform, they can also instill fear and panic where it is not warranted.

For what it´s worth your original post sounds absolutely 100% normal to me and wouldn´t worry me in the least. Just make sure that other properties in the same urb have got their licences and then you know that you can complete on yours in full knowledge that your LFO is on the way (and enjoy free leccy and water in the meantime).

If you can´t confirm that other houses on the urb have their licences, then just tell the builder that you want to wait for the licence to come through before you complete. You´ll have to wait about 2 months ish depending on your local authority.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

You should not allow yourself to be bullied into completing until the LFO is in place.

The developer cannot oblige you to complete or to pay any further money until all of the paperwork is in order.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Too true, get the paperwork first.
You are not breaching the contract, but the builder is if he expects you to sign without it.
What happens if you pay up and don`t get the LFO ?
You will be left with a house you cant sell.
Builders electric and water is for the builder only and should be disconnected on the sale.
If you buy the property and use his supply even with his nowledge you are technically stealing from the electric and water companies as your name is not on the contracts.
Do not pay all the money till everything is acceptable and legal as you will have no leveredge for getting snagging etc done.

I am sure Rixxy will give you the right info when she reads the thread ;-)


.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

This is why we are thinking of pulling out at the end of April, when the 6 months over contract is up. But our mortgage broker has told us that as the licence has been applied for then technically the builders are not in breach of contract as it is out of their hands :blink: Therefore if we pull out we lose our deposit (£40,000) Not a chance we can take! We have been assured that all is ok as there are residents on the urb who have been living there since 2002 and they are quite happy there. Luckily there is a forum board for our urb so I have been asking questions and reading what others have to say on there. I have to admit - it is rather tempting to move in and live mortgage free for a few months with free electric and water :thumbsup:

Where is Rixxy when you need her RIXXXXXXYYYYYYYYY

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Argggg now this I dont need. I cannot stay here not working I cant afford to. I need to get to Spain where its cheap :) Really, dont pay any money, even the 20% deposit? surely I have to pay that?

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Mortgage free how do you work that out then :huh:

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

The bank won't release any money until the licence has been granted by the Town Hall, therefore it is possible to move in provided the builder has received a letter from the bank saying a mortgage has been granted. Our bank has sent this letter to our builders and has also been on the phone to them also our mortgage broker has spoken with the builders. The solicitor who has already moved in (as his property is over contract date) had moved over and was living in rented accommodation in Castalla town. Once he received an ok from the builders he moved into his property. The builders were happy to let him do this as they are obliged to pay his rent. He isn't paying a mortgage or water or electricity bills until the licence is issued. Same position as us. We are just waiting for the go ahead from the builder.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

I completed on a new build apartment without the LFO, on the advice of my solicitor who assured me it was only a formality.

In theory it was. However, by the time the town hall came to inspect, some of the neighbours had installed winter gardens (glazed in the terraces) which contravened the planning regs. This delayed the issue of the LFO by two and a half years. It didn't make any difference to us as, although the supply was a little sporadic, we were not living there full time.

If there are delays and your supplies are cut, life could be very unpleasant. Difficult one I know.:unsure:

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

You will have to pay your next deposit as you have agreed that in your contract - otherwise you will be in breach of contract. The final payment is the one we needn't pay until the licence has been granted. That is being paid by mortgage.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Smarties, what stage is the property at? When is completion due (I mean physical completion, not rubber stamps on paper completion)?

If you are just at the putting down 20% deposit stage it sounds like you still have some way to go?

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

If you have no LFO then you are actually living in the premises illegally as its not licenced for habitation.
One day you are using the electric and the whole place catches fire and also burns out 4 or 5 other properties.
Tell me what happens next ?

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Good point jdr! This is one of the things keeping me awake. We are still waiting for confirmation from the builder.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Builders confirmation wouldn`t count to the Guardia, only legal paperwork.
Anyway what is the builder confirming, that its ok to break the law cos he said so.....
I dont think people realize the actual dangers and consequences of living in a premises that is not legally habitable.
Some would say "its ok the insurance will cover any accidents etc" sure they will, lol, Have they told the insurance company they are living illegally in a place with no habitation licence.
We all know what ins companies are like if they can dodge a claim.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

We completed without our Licence after long discussions with the builders who are quite reputable and they told us they have never had any problems getting them on any development. They had already received them for phase 1 and some for Phase 2. We are Phase 3.

We decided to go ahead and got keys in April 06. We were able to get our Iberdrola supply and water even when the LFO had not come through. Our builders told us that Iberdrola and water authority will do this if the builders show them a copy of the application for the LFO for each property. They sent us a copy of the LFO application to the town hall for our property so we knew they had applied.

We got the proper supply in August last year but the LFO did not come through until December.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Yeah but the property should not of been lived in until it was licenced, re the name of the licence. ;-)

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Well the property is deemed to be key ready so we asked for May and they said okay. Having been to the property it seemed complete and just needed a good clean up after any building job. The 20% is due end of this month with rest on mortgage when I get in the property but this is now a serious concern given some of the comments on here re insurance and things. Am I able to withdraw from this at this stage if I needed to and just lose the initial 3000 euros holding fee? That has to be an option? Not saying I will but I have read something in this thread about having to pay or being in breach of contract or something like that and need to be sure of my options.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Smarties have you talked with your solicitor about your concerns? Are there already others living there, if so then talk with them and hopefully put your mind at rest. We feel it will be ok moving into ours as there are lots of others who have done the same and eventually got the LFO. It's mainly a case of mañana and nothing will speed things up :( We still have it at the back of our minds about pulling out if it goes over contract though. Just need to clarify this with our solicitor.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

SmartiesUK - do you not have a lawyer (an independent lawyer) acting for you? Did they not flag up that there was no LFO before you handed over any money?
A property cannot be key ready without an LFO.
PLEASE please please visit the Spanish Property Insight forum and read about the problems people are experiencing with properties with no LFO. You are likely to have problems with utilities, insurance, mortgage, reselling.....
Find yourself one that's already legal!

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

I know you are asking for advice here, but we are mere mortals on a forum. You really need to speak to your abogado, and hopefully he isn't the one that the estate agent recommended.

For what its worth, the paperwork on my house wasn't complete when it was finished but we still took the keys. Told the builder I needed a mortgage, and obviously the bank wouldn't give it. So I didn't make the final payment of over 35k until it was sorted which sort of gave them some impetus to get the matter finalised ;)

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

I am purchasing through a major developer and paying over the odds for what I thought was peace of mind. The solicitor, well they are taking care of all that though this LFO was never discussed at any stage not once.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Change your solicitor immediately ....... using the builders or agents pet solicitor is absolute folly!!!!

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Smarties, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE be very careful about how you are interpreting the advice that is being given to you here.

By the sounds of your comments, eg withdrawing from the purchase seem to suggest that you believe you have put a deposit down on an ILLEGAL PROPERTY. I have read nothing so far to suggest that you have purchased an illegally built property. Why do you think you need to pull out???????

The delay between the property being physically finished, and having all its paperwork in place is ABSOLUTELY NORMAL. I wouldn´t expect it any other way!

It is also absolutely normal for people to complete on properties that do not yet have their LFOs in place - however, the British tend to be a little more "by the book" than the Spanish and many prefer not to complete without the LFO. That is absolutely fine, and they are well within their rights not to do so.

HOWEVER, pulling out of the sale altogether because the property doesn´t have its LFO yet is LUNACY!!!!!!!!! (and breach of the contract no doubt)

When you purchase a property off-plan (which technically you have done as you are buying from a developer) there is NEVER an LFO in place. How can there be?

If you want to be super duper sure, just tell the developer you are going to delay completion until the paperwork is stamped - but for god´s sake don´t pull out of the sale just because of some crap that you have read on a forum!!

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

He must be a really good solicitor, not to mention the most important part of the buying.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

And what is the crap you think he has read ?

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Hi all,
Would that meant that you would live there mortgage FREE :eek: for say several months until paperwork completed? Or does it mean that those few months would be added to the end of the term of the mortgage? :blink:

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

The part that seems to have made him think he has paid a deposit on an illegal property and consider pulling out of the deal.

What has Smarties said that makes anyone think the property is illegal? Absolutely nothing. You wouldn´t expect a newly finished property to have its LFO yet.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

The mortgage will not start until the licence has been stamped. Up until that happens no money changes hands and it is not added to the end of the mortgage - it is MORTGAGE FREE

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

:eek: BARGAIN!! How cool is that? :D Nice one Lionda! :thumbup:

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Smarties I have taken another look at the link you provided in another thread. It all looks bona fida to me. Looks like you've got a nice property there and I can't see why you would need to worry. Go back and take another look, ask a few of the other property owners how they like it there. Ask, ask ask until people start to cross the road to avoid you. As I have said, we have been advised that the LFO is nothing to worry about and will happen in time - Spanish time! Our reason for thinking about pulling out is the length of time it has taken our builders - we put our names down in May 2004! They keep moving the completion date. We are just getting fed-up.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

If the property does not have a licence to build then it is illegal!:eek:

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Why not, it is illegal for the builder to sell a property to live in if it has not got a habitation licence.
You will find now it is getting very difficult to get a mortgage unless it is in place, things are changing from the old days cos so many people have come unstuck.

Re: Licence of first occupation
 

Smarties has made no mention of the property not have having its licencia de obras. So why would you assume that?