Re: It's far better abroad
 

Working in a global market research company, an international tax lawyers, an engineers

English is used in international meetings which you either go to or not go to based on your role. The odd person may write reports in English if for example, writing a report about the Spanish market for the US office. And you may have to write emails to these same offices

Even those young Spaniards who are fluent in English are not fluent enough to write a report in English, unless they first go to work in the UK or US to learn this skill. Often mulitnationals in Madrid or Barcelona have a few foreigners whos native language is English to do this

English is important for some, but for the vast majority of professionals, not relevant.

Almost all good jobs in Spain ask for fluency in 3 European languages including English, but people just lie or exaggerate on their CV because they know that they'll rarely be tested.

Re: It's far better abroad
 

Cricketman, can I just confirm that this is you view of the future.

English will be phased out of the curriculum in Spain (post57) so therefore average businesses in Madrid and Barcelona (presuming they want to remain international) will therefore have to employ a native English speaker who speaks Spanish because there will be no Spanish who have learnt English. Even a die hard Spain lover like yourself can't imagine the Spanish being so stupid. Engilsh is the new lingua franca.

Re your passionate feelings at the tender age of 18 when you would have burnt down Fish and Chip shops etc (post 40). Why didn't you? Just because you're not Spanish. Would you have encouraged Spaniards to burn them down? Did you consider burning down Pizza Express and the local Kebab shop in the UK.

Re: It's far better abroad
 

When I worked as a business English teacher in Madrid, I visited many different companies. I can confirm that outside a class, you would rarely hear English being spoken. The 2 exceptions I remember were the tel receptionist at a major bank, and a Catalan manager at Ibm who often took conference calls from Euro branches.

Re: It's far better abroad
 

No, none of the above represent by point of view

1. English "could" be phased out, like French was. Dont be so narrow minded. Look through history, every language that was a "lingua franca" of course no longer is. The global crisis we are going through could very well end with the end of the international Anglo-marketing/financing-empire. Which basically was just the availability of cheap credit and financing to English speakers. Those days are over. And anyway, Spain was pretty much self-reliant on its own banking empire
2. Whay you described already happens. Bilingual English and Spanish speakers are employed to write reports in English to the UK and US companies. Most often these people arent Spanish. However, like I said 99% of business takes place in Spanish
3. Burning down Pizza Express :rofl: You havent understood my point at all. When a certain group of people come to a country, dont speak the language of the country or interact with the people of the country, then they are colonialists who have invaded to make use of the land/resources or whatever. So imo back then (I am more laid back now ;)) should have been driven out

Re: It's far better abroad
 

They'll be well tested once they go far beyond their own shores and probably at home on occasions losing out badly with regard to both business and pleasure.
This is the time of international travel and communications, not a time to look backward and restrict opportunities to only those in the home country.
Spending time in Scandinavia I have seen a vast improvement in English skills in a relatively short period.
People up there are much more forward thinking and keen to reap the benefits in both work and pleasure of their ever improving use of the English language.
Many of the younger ones now much prefer to converse with me in English to become ever more comfortable with its use.
Spain will do its ppl.especially younger ones, absolutely no favours at all by putting restrictions on the use of the English language as you suggest.

Re: It's far better abroad
 

What's odd,unusual or interesting about that? Nothing. Why should they speak in another language outside the classroom?

The fact that you were there teaching ENGLISH is what's relevant. In Cricketmans future world that receptionist and IBM manager better start lookig for other jobs.

Re: It's far better abroad
 

Scandinavian countries are tiny so have very limited opportunities both culturally and job-wise in their country. For example, if you only want to read books, listen to music and watch TV/films in Norwegian, then there is a very limited choice

This is not the case in Spanish where the culture is just as rich as in the English language

I am not saying that Spaniards shouldnt learn English, but they should be free to decide for themselves. And there are not that many more reasons for Spaniards to learn English as English people to learn Spanish

English people are appalling at langauges. If half a million Brits actually live in Spain and still dont speak Spanish. Now, what better excuse do they need! :rofl:

Re: It's far better abroad
 

CM pointed that English is not used that much in a typical business in Madrid. I agree with that, although obviously there are times when language skills are useful.

Re: It's far better abroad
 

... depends rather on what part of whatever country you're in really, and how much you make of it.

I think you'll always feel 'cut off' if you don't learn the native language. I lived in Spain for twelve months (for my job) and learned enough Spanish to get by - but was by no means perfect. Spanish was more of a 'mainstream' European language with more opportunities to find ways of studying it - certainly more than Swedish (the country where I live now) and which I've always had difficulty with.

I always thought that you can have a pretty decent lifestyle in either Spain of the UK. Here in Sweden you just exist.:(

Re: It's far better abroad
 

Then you need to edit post 57 where you say "will be phased out". I am not so ignorant as to realise that the lingua franca has changed throughout history, the fact remains that the current one is English.
Re your point no2 "Most of these people aren't Spanish, Why not if they're in Spain? And if English is removed from the curriculum there will be none, but at least you'll keep your job with less competition from the natives.
Re post 3 If you are more laid back now than you were at 18 then good only knows what a handful you must have been then:eek:
Remember that an awful lot of Spaniards did very well out the early colonists and welcomed them with open arms

Re: It's far better abroad
 

So do I, The point I am making is that those Spaniards who want an international career have to learn English and if English disappears from the currculum then you'll be looking for a job as well.

Re: It's far better abroad
 

Your last few words are so true.
A reasonable standard of living possibly, but after that you can keep it.
It's probably equivalent to an upmarket version of N.Korea.
The powers that be always know whats best for you and ppl.long ago lost the ability to think outside the box. They seem to me to be well on the way to becoming a nation of zombies.
I feel sorry for so many Brits who feel trapped up there having married or shacked up with a Swedish lass and started a family, I'm only too pleased I kept my options open.
Just as well the younger ones are now so proficient in English giving them many more options.


Meanwhile in Spain if Cman had his way the Spanish would soon be living back in the dark ages. :eek:

Re: It's far better abroad
 

:lol: Don't get me started...! Especially on a thread that seems to be primarily for residents in Spain.

Take care:)

Re: It's far better abroad
 

Sweden has just over 6% unemployment where as Spain is around 23% ,not a recipe for a decent lifestyle in my book assuming you need to work.:(

Re: It's far better abroad
 

Right, so you are saying everyone who doesnt speak English lives in the dark ages? :blink:

English should still be on the curriculum, but I do not like the thought of the bilingual English-Spanish schools that are popping up around the country, especially in Madrid

It is a fad to satisfy the ego of the parents.A bit like the English schools who say they teach Chinese to the 5 year olds. Well, teach them to read and write first and to think for themselves... then lets see what languages THEY want to learn! Not the ones you want to impose on them.