well if MOST of my family's income from wherever it comes from is spent in Spain.................are we helping the economy?

of course we are

Exactly! even the struggling Brit bar owner is buying (some) beer and feeding himself. Every little helps

So Brits never import cars, never buys food imported from UK (whether in Iceland or the suitcase tin), buy clothes from Primark on their trips back to Blighty? As I stated, But I get the feeling some contribute more than others...Just a feeling

Many hardly ever visit the UK. Others may buy all their clothes from the UK but still spend a couple of thousand per month on spanish goods. Imported cars fromthe UK are few, not worth the cost/hassle. If people shop at Iceland then money still goes into the local economy...the company will pay taxes and employ people spanish and English who presumably spend their money locally...do the math

If someone employed 10 Morrocans locally then their wage is going into the economy.

A few thousand per month on Spanish goods? I think you are talking about your social circle jackytoo

Pensioners probably do contribute net positively as they even get their healthcare refunded from the UK government

A single person paying income tax in Spain will probably also contribute net positively

But a single person or couple working on the black, or a low income family declaring little and sending their kids to the local schools will have a net negative contribution, financially that is. Culturally it is a different matter, but then I fear that most Brits contribute even less

It may say something about the area I live in, but the British families around here tend to be driving an illegal UK reg car, never speak Spanish, send their kids to the local school and earn their money by doing manual jobs for other Brits. I'm not sure they are contributing very much to Spain

As for the model where more money in the economy equals a positive contribution. I thought that era of capitalist economic thinking was coming to an end

The fact that this discussion not only is taking place, but following the lines it is, simply emphasises the fact that we are all Brits, Spanish and whatever first and foremost, and never ever likely to embrace the concept of full European citizenship that the clowns in Brussels would wish to bestow upon us.

Sad, but true. In the good times, we can all indulge in woolly thinking about equality, shake hands with the French and Germans, but when recession strikes we are little Englanders, we hate Krauts and even the Jocks on our doorstep.

To nuke them is too drastic, but we can veto the bastards.

But as expats living in Spain we are walking on egg shells. Of course Spanish people are the same as us . . . well, almost the same . . . they've got rid of their donkeys, haven't they?

I dont think so

I've never heard the opinion that Britis should go home from a Spaniard. Spain still has an inferiority complex, I think they feel quite proud that Northern Europeans want to live here

However, they are dumbfounded why the Brits would want to live here and not enjoy the good Spanish things like the food and speak the language. I've heard that lots and I've had to give many explanations

Well, we certainly spend more than a few thousand per month into the Spanish economy.

So I suppose that proves that both I and Jacky must be another of those decadent filthy rich making over €50K per year off the backs of poor folks like you who believe you are entitled to compensation from those more fortunate than you?

Except for spending their decandent and completely undeserved fortunes into an economy that seriously needs it. But naturally, since it isn't ultimately going into your entitled pocket, then it's net negative.

By the way, consuming local resources by sending your kids to a local public school isn't a net negative? And by earning a little extra from work for another Brit (who likely earn their money elsewhere), only to spend that money at the local Lidl doesn't put money into the local economy? Besides, how many Brits living here actually earn their money here? I think many of them who did have probably left by now. If not, they should. It's not going to get any better.

No, money doesn't matter. It's the thought that counts. As you've consistently shown us, nice thoughts will bring the economy back, not money, hard work, or innovation.

And I suppose it's completely rational to wholly de-incentivise those who possess the motivation, determination, enthusiasm and skillset to make larger contributions to the economy, so as to prevent them from from depriving the less motivated, less skilled and less fortunate (such as yourself) from receiving the same benefits as those who actually contribute, rather than subscribe to the increasingly common "consume and complain" mentality of the "I'm entitled" generation.

Yes, that'll fix this "crisis" we're in.

I haven't heard it often, but more frequently of late. But Spain being a socialist country at heart, despite Rajoy in power, what the people really dislike is wealthy foreigners who flout their wealth with big villas and flash cars.

Maybe it's the same the world over, capitalists and bankers are in the firing line because everybody's getting poorer in a recession, the already poor even more so.

We're discussing derogatory terms used by nationals against foreigners, incomers. The one which contains the most venom and is the common denominator in most graffiti is the word Rico, and if combined with Guiri really demonstrates what ordinary people think.

Rightly or wrongly, Spanish people don't want all the foreigners to go home, just the rich ones.

Again, what the hell are you talking about? You are an expert at misconstruing everything

1. Who says I am less fortunate? I would be in the top few percent of earners in any country
2. Why am I entitled? I feel lucky to have the chances I have had
3. You "earn" money do you? I very much doubt that. Either your partner makes a lot of money or you made your money off the back of property like jackytoo. The way you completely misunderstand everything doesnt lend itself to making money in a business environment

The economic system is wrong. Whether changing it benefits me or not is beyond the point. Actually if it was changed the way I would like, I'd probably be much worse off monetry wise, but I'd give that up for a fairer sustainable system

I've never come across that opinion. I think Spaniards are more likely to hate Spanish "rich" people than foreign ones

I Dont think that I have ever heard such a bitter sounding post from someone who is doing well for themselves, and you even got away with your genitals totally intact, in a country which advocates snipping for breaking the law,so you should be grateful, relieved etc.

That seems to be the vein of every post you make, moaning about being ripped off with eclecticity and demanding wording on official documents be changed because you get the wrong end of the stick. (you must have looked a right plonker in the lawyers office ,pity nobody put it on youtube)

The point that CMAN was making is valid in a large number of cases, there will always be people outside those cases, and if you happen to be one, great.

But if moaning became an olympic event, you would do your country proud.

I wont put any because that gets on your nerves too.

HBG's right to bring us back to topic - being the name for incomers. Whether or not the very definition of what an incomer is, is determined by, or at least coloured by, the largesse of their lifestyle, is possibly worthy of further debate? Iḿ certainly intrigued to know when people speak of putting money into the economy, whether that means anywhere, by any means - ie black economy via cash-in-hand Brits or others who will then spend the cash wherever.... or taxes... or Iceland and the ilk (don't truly know how much of that ultimately finds its way into Spanish coffers though clearly SOME suppliers will be Spanish).... or other multi-nationals (YPF, BP, Renault, Nissan, Carrefour, etc etc) .... ??

The obvious.

Well, you consistently exhibit jealousy and spite for those more fortunate than you, so one can only assume.

Yet you're the one always screaming about how the unfair capitalist system has ruined the world. Somehow that just doesn't seem to be consistent with someone who has been such a major beneficiary of that system.

Again, shows your consistent mindset that anyone who ever made any money is somehow a villain. I guess that makes you one, too.

By the way, in the macro view, we wouldn't even remotely qualify as "wealthy", and I suspect neither would Jackie - and that again leads me to believe you don't even have a clue what "wealthy" is, despite your apparent disgust for anyone you choose to place in that category (by the way, the same people who made you "wealthy", as you claim to be).

At least one thing we agree on. But I don't believe we remotely agree about what's actually wrong with it.