Incomers.....
 

I am at a loss on what to call the collective group of foreigners/immigrants/new arrivals/pateros/guiris/nationals that relocate/expats etc.

After being informed that it is seen as a bit of an "insult" in a sneering sort of way, a little input might be of use to find an accectable term for this groups or groups of people

What would you like to be called as a collective nown?

I know we are all people but sometimes we diferenciate in discussions.

Re: Incomers.....
 

I actually think immigrants is the most honest

Expats implies a goes-without-saying superiority to the native population. As if you've been posted abroad to keep the natives in check. It gives me the image of a British army general in India tiger hunting and ordering the Raj about

Apologies to the owners of the site ;)

Re: Incomers.....
 

Chris Stewart called them una plaga de guiris!:)

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I have always steered clear of the word immigrant, because not all "incomers " are immigrants.

Immigrants to me means that a person has emigrated which is not the case with EU countries.

Would most Brits class themselves as immigrants to Spain, the ones who are 6 months here and 6 months there for example, or people who are here with their job.
People working for a while in a language school before settling down in their home country, would they be classed as an immigrant who has been through all the hassle of the family grouping process?

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PLAGA :eek:........the more sensitive members will be doubly offended at my "sneering".

And it is still not the right collective word.....

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Well given the Plaga connotation, and one of the words most often used with that collective is Locusts, I find myself wondering if that is so far from the mark for some of us......... arrive in large numbers, don't really care what effect we have on the locale, consume everything that's available then bu&&er off to find pastures new:sneaky:

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I would say I'm an immigrant - but this is definitely my home country now

yet the Spanish kids I used to teach English to in a language school, said that I wasn't because I am European


the girl in the group from Colombia was an immigrant however, even though they had a common language :confused:

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The OH and I call ourselves immigrants, we have chosen to leave the country of our birth and live in another one all year round, so that is what we are. I don't think that coming from an EU country has anything to do with it.

We don't think we did Spain a favour by coming here, and hopefully we're not doing Spain or the Spanish people any harm either.

Perhaps some people think the word immigrant has negative connotations because of the way they themselves use it to describe those who have gone to live in their home countries.

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The British don't seem to like being called immigrants, that is what they are. Incomers doesn't sound right as they are regarded as that if they come from the next pueblo. Locusts can't be right as the Brits put a lot of money into the economy.

However you trim it up....they are immigrants. That is how I would think of them if I were a spaniard.

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Well ok I was being a bit daft/provocative, but do you really think the Brits put a lot into the economy? Really? Which bit(s) of the economy?

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What does the average Brit spend monthly in Spain...I don't know but it would have to be at least 1000 euro. Food, petrol, IBI etc. Having their houses cleaned, painted, repaired. Buying white goods, cars. The majority of this income comes in from the UK. pensioners, disability allowance etc. private income, savings. Many spend much more than this. Add to this the people who invest in businesses, don't mean the crappy bars but eg. Iceland which we all know. Many of the shops in the large shopping complexes are British/Irish owned. I have friends who employ 4 spaniards, they are paying high taxes. There are many businesses that are not visibly British but they are british owned, bowling centres, golf courses.

All this helps the economy, the money is spent locally. I don't know how many British and other foreigners are on the coast but all their spending goes back into the economy one way or another.

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If a Spanish person to whom you're not related calls you Tio, is he taking the piss?

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I'm not so sure that "most" of the money Brits spend, helps the economy. Obviously a certain amount must do, it must be impossible not to make some kind of contribution. But if someone only shops in Iceland and other Brit shops, drinks Carling and Gordons gin in expat bars, and imports baked beans, tea bags etc. then they may not be making a huge contribution - especially if they employ Brits for any building, tv satellite or car work. Unemployment tends to be higher in the southern tourist areas too - not too sure why? Perhaps because a lot of work is seasonal and done on the black?

http://realidadeconomica.es/wp-conte...as-colores.jpg

I suspect the rise of "all-in" inclusive hotel holidays in certain places is also taking money out of the local economy.

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I thought this was an equivalent of "mate" or "pal". Since the Spanish are not averse to calling you guiri directly, I doubt they'd use "tio" to take the piss - I could be generalising based on a couple of regions though. Different slang is used in different areas.

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If you live there then all your money is going into the economy. If the businesses employ workers of whatever nationality then whatever they spend to live goes into the economy. They will spend their wages in Mercadona etc. The Brit that puts up the satellite dish has to eat, clothe the kids, buy a car...and get it serviced. Makes no difference what nationality they use the money is in the local system.

Try a crash course in economics:rofl:

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well if MOST of my family's income from wherever it comes from is spent in Spain.................are we helping the economy?

of course we are

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Exactly! even the struggling Brit bar owner is buying (some) beer and feeding himself. Every little helps:lol:

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So Brits never import cars, never buys food imported from UK (whether in Iceland or the suitcase tin), buy clothes from Primark on their trips back to Blighty? As I stated, But I get the feeling some contribute more than others...Just a feeling ;)

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Many hardly ever visit the UK. Others may buy all their clothes from the UK but still spend a couple of thousand per month on spanish goods. Imported cars fromthe UK are few, not worth the cost/hassle. If people shop at Iceland then money still goes into the local economy...the company will pay taxes and employ people spanish and English who presumably spend their money locally...do the math:)

If someone employed 10 Morrocans locally then their wage is going into the economy.

Re: Incomers.....
 

A few thousand per month on Spanish goods? I think you are talking about your social circle jackytoo :D

Pensioners probably do contribute net positively as they even get their healthcare refunded from the UK government

A single person paying income tax in Spain will probably also contribute net positively

But a single person or couple working on the black, or a low income family declaring little and sending their kids to the local schools will have a net negative contribution, financially that is. Culturally it is a different matter, but then I fear that most Brits contribute even less

It may say something about the area I live in, but the British families around here tend to be driving an illegal UK reg car, never speak Spanish, send their kids to the local school and earn their money by doing manual jobs for other Brits. I'm not sure they are contributing very much to Spain

As for the model where more money in the economy equals a positive contribution. I thought that era of capitalist economic thinking was coming to an end ;)

Re: Incomers.....
 

The fact that this discussion not only is taking place, but following the lines it is, simply emphasises the fact that we are all Brits, Spanish and whatever first and foremost, and never ever likely to embrace the concept of full European citizenship that the clowns in Brussels would wish to bestow upon us. :thumbup:

Re: Incomers.....
 

Sad, but true. In the good times, we can all indulge in woolly thinking about equality, shake hands with the French and Germans, but when recession strikes we are little Englanders, we hate Krauts and even the Jocks on our doorstep.

To nuke them is too drastic, but we can veto the bastards.

But as expats living in Spain we are walking on egg shells. Of course Spanish people are the same as us . . . well, almost the same . . . they've got rid of their donkeys, haven't they?

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I dont think so

I've never heard the opinion that Britis should go home from a Spaniard. Spain still has an inferiority complex, I think they feel quite proud that Northern Europeans want to live here

However, they are dumbfounded why the Brits would want to live here and not enjoy the good Spanish things like the food and speak the language. I've heard that lots and I've had to give many explanations

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Well, we certainly spend more than a few thousand per month into the Spanish economy.

So I suppose that proves that both I and Jacky must be another of those decadent filthy rich making over €50K per year off the backs of poor folks like you who believe you are entitled to compensation from those more fortunate than you?

Except for spending their decandent and completely undeserved fortunes into an economy that seriously needs it. But naturally, since it isn't ultimately going into your entitled pocket, then it's net negative.

By the way, consuming local resources by sending your kids to a local public school isn't a net negative? And by earning a little extra from work for another Brit (who likely earn their money elsewhere), only to spend that money at the local Lidl doesn't put money into the local economy? Besides, how many Brits living here actually earn their money here? I think many of them who did have probably left by now. If not, they should. It's not going to get any better.

No, money doesn't matter. It's the thought that counts. As you've consistently shown us, nice thoughts will bring the economy back, not money, hard work, or innovation.

And I suppose it's completely rational to wholly de-incentivise those who possess the motivation, determination, enthusiasm and skillset to make larger contributions to the economy, so as to prevent them from from depriving the less motivated, less skilled and less fortunate (such as yourself) from receiving the same benefits as those who actually contribute, rather than subscribe to the increasingly common "consume and complain" mentality of the "I'm entitled" generation.

Yes, that'll fix this "crisis" we're in. :blink:

Re: Incomers.....
 

I haven't heard it often, but more frequently of late. But Spain being a socialist country at heart, despite Rajoy in power, what the people really dislike is wealthy foreigners who flout their wealth with big villas and flash cars.

Maybe it's the same the world over, capitalists and bankers are in the firing line because everybody's getting poorer in a recession, the already poor even more so.

We're discussing derogatory terms used by nationals against foreigners, incomers. The one which contains the most venom and is the common denominator in most graffiti is the word Rico, and if combined with Guiri really demonstrates what ordinary people think.

Rightly or wrongly, Spanish people don't want all the foreigners to go home, just the rich ones.

Re: Incomers.....
 

Again, what the hell are you talking about? You are an expert at misconstruing everything

1. Who says I am less fortunate? I would be in the top few percent of earners in any country
2. Why am I entitled? I feel lucky to have the chances I have had
3. You "earn" money do you? I very much doubt that. Either your partner makes a lot of money or you made your money off the back of property like jackytoo. The way you completely misunderstand everything doesnt lend itself to making money in a business environment

The economic system is wrong. Whether changing it benefits me or not is beyond the point. Actually if it was changed the way I would like, I'd probably be much worse off monetry wise, but I'd give that up for a fairer sustainable system

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I've never come across that opinion. I think Spaniards are more likely to hate Spanish "rich" people than foreign ones

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I Dont think that I have ever heard such a bitter sounding post from someone who is doing well for themselves, and you even got away with your genitals totally intact, in a country which advocates snipping for breaking the law,so you should be grateful, relieved etc.

That seems to be the vein of every post you make, moaning about being ripped off with eclecticity and demanding wording on official documents be changed because you get the wrong end of the stick. (you must have looked a right plonker in the lawyers office ,pity nobody put it on youtube)

The point that CMAN was making is valid in a large number of cases, there will always be people outside those cases, and if you happen to be one, great.

But if moaning became an olympic event, you would do your country proud.

I wont put any :rofl: because that gets on your nerves too.

Re: Incomers.....
 

HBG's right to bring us back to topic - being the name for incomers. Whether or not the very definition of what an incomer is, is determined by, or at least coloured by, the largesse of their lifestyle, is possibly worthy of further debate? Iḿ certainly intrigued to know when people speak of putting money into the economy, whether that means anywhere, by any means - ie black economy via cash-in-hand Brits or others who will then spend the cash wherever.... or taxes... or Iceland and the ilk (don't truly know how much of that ultimately finds its way into Spanish coffers though clearly SOME suppliers will be Spanish).... or other multi-nationals (YPF, BP, Renault, Nissan, Carrefour, etc etc) .... ??

Re: Incomers.....
 

The obvious.

Well, you consistently exhibit jealousy and spite for those more fortunate than you, so one can only assume.

Yet you're the one always screaming about how the unfair capitalist system has ruined the world. Somehow that just doesn't seem to be consistent with someone who has been such a major beneficiary of that system.

Again, shows your consistent mindset that anyone who ever made any money is somehow a villain. I guess that makes you one, too.

By the way, in the macro view, we wouldn't even remotely qualify as "wealthy", and I suspect neither would Jackie - and that again leads me to believe you don't even have a clue what "wealthy" is, despite your apparent disgust for anyone you choose to place in that category (by the way, the same people who made you "wealthy", as you claim to be).

At least one thing we agree on. But I don't believe we remotely agree about what's actually wrong with it.

Re: Incomers.....
 

Didn't make our money out of the back of property. We actually had careers in the UK. Spending two thousand per month is hardly top bracket is it. Never said I had any money anyway.

JLFS, to preserve forum harmony I think you should refrain from using the words incomers and marida;):lol:

Re: Incomers.....
 

:lol:

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And Jacky to preserve the forum harmony I think you should refrain from using :D:lol: because you are only one small step away from using a :rofl:

Which is unacceptable as it has been pointed out on here.

Re: Incomers.....
 

I'm reminded a little of those English second-homers in Wales or Cornwall, who are often resented for pushing house prices up beyond local workers. Indeed at times this resentment resulted in holiday homes being burnt down in Wales. Obviously there was more to it than just envy of the rich incomers pricing out locals (linguistic issues also were a factor), but I suspect the local population also didn't feel they benefited much from the summer influx, besides one or two temporary bar jobs. There again, someone like Rick Stein has obviously done well from his location and the tourist influx.

Re: Incomers.....
 

I can't agree that the largesse of anyone's lifestyle should affect how they are described as a person who has left their own country to live in another one, permanently and by choice.

Calling them "incomers" sounds to me like one of those PC terms chosen as euphemisms to avoid giving offence - but why should the word "immigrant" be seen as offensive? Extranjero or foreigner could be used equally well to describe someone who is only here as a tourist, so that wouldn't be appropriate. "Expat" to me means someone who is in another country purely to work for a temporary period and will move on, either to another country or back to their own.

Given today's global economy, the Spanish people are very likely to be buying products produced in other countries and sold by "foreign" firms as well as people from other countries who are living in Spain - no shortage of Spaniards buying from the Chino bazaars, driving foreign-made cars, wearing clothes which are manufactured in other countries even if sold by Spanish chain stores.

Re: Incomers.....
 

I'm not convinced I think that either, however I do think, having read this thread through, it might be worthy of debate - which is all I actually said;)

Re: Incomers.....
 

I say again that I don't see 'incomers' as having any negative connotations.

In our village it is obvious that incomers have had a profound effect - mostly positive - on the local economy. A large percentage of the many derelict houses have been bought by incomers and reformed using local building products and (mostly) local labour. Many of the bars, restaurants and shops simply couldn't have survived without incomer patronage. There are very few incomers working or running their own businesses who are taking business or jobs away from the local people. I am one of those although no-one seems to mind.

I suppose that one complaint that could be made is that it has pushed house prices up beyond the reach of local people. But now the only houses being sold are owned by incomers who are prepared to reduce their prices where the Spanish refuse to do so - so the remedy to this problem is in their own hands.

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Last year alone over 20,000 Spanish moved to UK, but the difference with them is the vast majority have gone for work, not to retire, so of course they are paying all their taxes in UK. I think whether you are resident or on holiday, there's every chance you be called an "extranjero". :) You'll always be a foreigner no matter how long you stay.

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Agree, but unfortunately that happens in lots of places, and of course initially it was the Spanish themselves that sold these properties to guiris and made a killing. ;) They can't have it both ways, although you have to feel some sympathy for the youngsters trying to get a start on the property ladder.

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Maybe we should return to basics. I have a Spanish neighbour a few doors away who drives a Twingo. I drive a Mercedes. I've tried to talk to him but he seems to hate me. I suppose I could downsize to make him feel better, but I can't even fit in a Twingo.