I'm getting good at this.

It's not about the half hour saved, it about capacity. The road, rail, and air links are all filling up, so that soon the only way people will be able to get from Manchester to London will be by canal barge.

And if we have more capacity why can't it be the best ? Why do we have to make do with a patched up Brunel's Britain ?

In UK, I travel frequently by train from Midlands to London, there is plenty of capacity----in the several empty first class coaches.
Replace these with ordinary coaches and then plenty of room.

It's the half hour saving thing that gets me. Just isn't worth bothering about.

They are also now suggesting that they will have to reduce the speed from 225 to 185 to avoid additional pollution!

You couldn't make it up if you tried!

I don't think HS2 is on UKIP's manifesto

Maybe not, but the capacity will definitely be needed and looking at where the main costs are involved would it save anything worthwhile by using a slighter slower train ?
Also to bear in mind is that the faster train may even increase system capacity.

The UK needs large capital projects to rejuvinate its manufacturing sector. Be it HS2 or hinkley point 3 . Even though this project does not yet have full planning permission and the price for its output agreed millions have already been spent and more will be spent.
This project alone is expected to need a work force of 8000 when building is at its peak.
The naysayers tried to talk down the Olympics as a waste of money and were proved wrong.
London will soon have crossrail
There is then the question of a new london airport or more capacity at Heathrow.
Countries cannot stand still, the nimbys will have to accept that progress and change are inevitable.
Todays " white elephant " will tomorrow be an essential part of the nations transport system and infrastructure.

Easy to say, if it is not your village, house, farm, business that is already blighted. For -- a half-hour less sitting on a train for some!! It will pass through/near our town, but will not stop!!

I think it is a white elephant, should be cancelled. See the compulsory purchase of properties is a reasonable deal. Full market value plus 10% and legal fees etc? nice little pick up! unless you have a gem of a property that is unique. Most people don't. Bet The EU won't be coughing up like they did for the AVE

Remember how " blight " was going to affect properties near Ashford and other towns in the south east. Or those near the Winchester by pass.
These are all now property hotspots.
I m sure that farmers in the 19th century complained when Brunel built his railways or when the first motorways were built in the 1950,60s.
I can remember the planning hiatus surrounding the M42,M40, the property owners in N Oxfordhsire and Warks are not complaining now.
Judging progress by todays needs is being shortsited.
We need more and better highspeed rail systems in the UK, the roads are getting more and more clogged up every day with no sign to an end to the rise in road traffic.

But if the highspeed rail systems only stop at the major city stations, people commuting from other areas will still need to use the roads. Our town has 70,000 people and already Virgin have cut train stops to peak times only. It used to be one train per hour to London.
Also, will commuters really change their habits just to save half hour in time?
I would have thought using present systems more efficiently would be preferable and a lot less expensive!! But we will see what happens.

Disagree on the first bit. Agree on the second.

The justification for HS2 is extremely flakey. Be interested to see what impact it's likely to have on GDP. The only thing I've heard about is saving time attending business meetings... WOW!!!

Yes, roads are clogged up. The number of trucks traversing EU roads daily is truly staggering. All in the name of free trade. A lot of the stuff is farm produce that should be grown locally - total madness. Any alien would think we're bonkers.

Yes, the epitome of flakey especially as the justification is based on saving 15 mins on a train journey. And there is no statement being made about the fast movement of freight on that line.

ISTR in "the good old days" we were promised that by building out of town business parks large shipments could be off loaded and split into smaller loads and delivered locally with less harm to environment. DIDN'T WORK OUT THAT WAY.
Now we have more huge lorries being used to block small streets to drop off a single package or two to a shop or business, resulting in CHAOS.

Rail Freight is a much forgotten part of transport history. Everyone works on a JIT process, delivery is paramount and must be maintained. Rail doesn't seem to be able to cope with that equation.

Going back to the HS2 justification, it comes back to the London is paramount in anything in the UK. The rest of the country are left to stew.
But there are a group of men and women who are soldiering on installing and upgrading more and more fast data networks. More and more people are experiencing Video Conferencing, working from home, sharing data on the cloud.
and some prat is still wanting to have 15 mins taken off his journey from London to Birmingham.

so far as HS2 is concerned my feelings are it is a dinosaur before it comes off the paper, in a few years time it will make an excellent walking and cycling way across the country.

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I suspect articles like this one "Breakfast in London, dinner in Barcelona" are helping to drive a desire to have at least 2 British cities linked by high speed rail. It has to be said that improving capacity will cost money even if it's not High speed - the upgrading of the west coast line cost £10 billion a few years back.
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/...a-9254210.html

Well most of it anyway...