how many making move
Jul 16th 2008, 1:05 pm
#106
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: West Surrey now, Almeria soon.
Posts: 284
Re: how many making move
Thanks Billgates, for your post #101. I think we have a reasonable meeting of minds there then. My point with the two viewers was essentially that one would enter the buying situation without the prejudice of ‘I can really shaft this seller’. I feel that the positive thinker is more likely to negotiate a successful deal than the negative. We can easily see from this and other forums that the ‘silly offer’ brigade are not really achieving what they want.
Equally I wouldn’t want sellers to be in a situation where they feel they need to accept just about any offer to get out and get on with their life.
As for “should have saved for their retirement instead of relying on endless property inflation”, my wife and I would have loved to have saved, but with two kids, a mortgage and all the usual bills, in Surrey Heath that just wasn’t possible. With multiple redundancies and other problems we are lucky to have scraped through at all.
That pretty much answers gallerie9’s point, but I’d change it to “how many UK residents can save for anything?” I realised in the 80s and 90s that, with my pension fund legally stolen, it was going to be ‘survival of the fittest’. Not everyone has survived.
Equally I wouldn’t want sellers to be in a situation where they feel they need to accept just about any offer to get out and get on with their life.
As for “should have saved for their retirement instead of relying on endless property inflation”, my wife and I would have loved to have saved, but with two kids, a mortgage and all the usual bills, in Surrey Heath that just wasn’t possible. With multiple redundancies and other problems we are lucky to have scraped through at all.
That pretty much answers gallerie9’s point, but I’d change it to “how many UK residents can save for anything?” I realised in the 80s and 90s that, with my pension fund legally stolen, it was going to be ‘survival of the fittest’. Not everyone has survived.
Jul 16th 2008, 5:00 pm
#107
Democracy advocate
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,460
Re: how many making move
Not quite, but I do believe that the government could and should have done something to prevent this unrealistic property bubble.
If banks had stuck to the tried and tested principles of three times salary for mortgages and a sensible deposit then house prices would never have gone the way they did. FTBs would still be able to afford a home without saddling themselves with a lifetime of debt.
I've nothing against anyone making money out of their house - just build an extension or add an extra bedroom. Whatever. It's the rampant speculation that is wrong. The Buy-To-let mortgages that were really only Borrow-To-Let because they were sold with huge mortgages. The new "owners" were only interested in speculation and making a quick profit. All that really happened was that so many people jumped on the bandwagon and suddenly everyone just had to get on the property ladder at any cost.
People were stupid.
Why did the banks really lend people 125% mortgages?
They didn't care what the people earned or whether they could actually afford to repay the loan. The banks just knew they were onto a good thing because it was pushing house prices up and up, and when the poor buyer defaulted on the mortgage, then the bank could clean up by repossessing the house and selling for an even greater profit.
Pure greed on the part of the BTL idiots and the banks, and the only real losers were the FTBs who were pressured into buying into an inflated market but who are finally realising that now it is time to wait.
Can anyone really believe that house prices jumping from 3 times salary to 8 times salary is an acceptable way for a "free market" to behave.
You could argue that the bank of England should not be able to adjust interest rates to control inflation. Isn't that simply interfering with your same "free market"?
If banks had stuck to the tried and tested principles of three times salary for mortgages and a sensible deposit then house prices would never have gone the way they did. FTBs would still be able to afford a home without saddling themselves with a lifetime of debt.
I've nothing against anyone making money out of their house - just build an extension or add an extra bedroom. Whatever. It's the rampant speculation that is wrong. The Buy-To-let mortgages that were really only Borrow-To-Let because they were sold with huge mortgages. The new "owners" were only interested in speculation and making a quick profit. All that really happened was that so many people jumped on the bandwagon and suddenly everyone just had to get on the property ladder at any cost.
People were stupid.
Why did the banks really lend people 125% mortgages?
They didn't care what the people earned or whether they could actually afford to repay the loan. The banks just knew they were onto a good thing because it was pushing house prices up and up, and when the poor buyer defaulted on the mortgage, then the bank could clean up by repossessing the house and selling for an even greater profit.
Pure greed on the part of the BTL idiots and the banks, and the only real losers were the FTBs who were pressured into buying into an inflated market but who are finally realising that now it is time to wait.
Can anyone really believe that house prices jumping from 3 times salary to 8 times salary is an acceptable way for a "free market" to behave.
You could argue that the bank of England should not be able to adjust interest rates to control inflation. Isn't that simply interfering with your same "free market"?
Like any business sector there will be some who over-extend themselves or fail, but at least they were trying to improve their lot rather than sitting back on the sofa doing nothing.
Jul 16th 2008, 5:13 pm
#108
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: how many making move
I do not see it as a problem, people have a right to do this if their finances are in order .... if they cannot afford it then they shouldn't be doing it.
Jul 16th 2008, 5:45 pm
#109
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Rugby
Posts: 290
Re: how many making move
As stated by a previous poster many people have seen their pension schemes disintegrate. Of those many then saw their home as their best hope for a passable retirement. It was quite reasonable to contemplate selling their by now over-large home to buy smaller property in the UK or Spain, or even, bearing in mind the problems with buying property in Spain to bank their capital on selling their home and to then pay rent out of capital or interest on that capital. Sorry, you cannot just see your property as a home, you have to see it as an asset.
Then we have the current property crisis and it is in my opinion precisely that. No one has seen anything like this since before the 1960's. Rather than question whether the closure of estate agents is significant,laudable or whatever or telling me that in your area property is still selling look at the position in a month or two. I believe that many who view this site have had their property up for sale for months and only a very small number will have sold within weeks if they placed their property on the market in May or June of this year.
As for half full and half empty purchasers, even the most optimistic (unworldly) purchaser or vendor is saddled with financing any property deal and the money men are now far more cagey about what they will or will not lend. I would love to meet the half full purchaser and have them interested in my property but there really cannot be many of them around. We are surrounded by info on building society cash flow problems, builders with massive problems etc.
Jul 16th 2008, 6:22 pm
#110
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: how many making move
Well, can't disagree with that. The fault is down to the greed of the bankers who sold ridiculous mortgages to get their commissions/bonuses, and those grasping scumbags are precisely the ones who will be least affected and least likely to suffer any punishment whatsoever.
Jul 16th 2008, 7:06 pm
#111
Democracy advocate
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,460
Re: how many making move
Forget retirement in the sun.
As stated by a previous poster many people have seen their pension schemes disintegrate. Of those many then saw their home as their best hope for a passable retirement. It was quite reasonable to contemplate selling their by now over-large home to buy smaller property in the UK or Spain, or even, bearing in mind the problems with buying property in Spain to bank their capital on selling their home and to then pay rent out of capital or interest on that capital. Sorry, you cannot just see your property as a home, you have to see it as an asset.
Then we have the current property crisis and it is in my opinion precisely that. No one has seen anything like this since before the 1960's. Rather than question whether the closure of estate agents is significant,laudable or whatever or telling me that in your area property is still selling look at the position in a month or two. I believe that many who view this site have had their property up for sale for months and only a very small number will have sold within weeks if they placed their property on the market in May or June of this year..
As stated by a previous poster many people have seen their pension schemes disintegrate. Of those many then saw their home as their best hope for a passable retirement. It was quite reasonable to contemplate selling their by now over-large home to buy smaller property in the UK or Spain, or even, bearing in mind the problems with buying property in Spain to bank their capital on selling their home and to then pay rent out of capital or interest on that capital. Sorry, you cannot just see your property as a home, you have to see it as an asset.
Then we have the current property crisis and it is in my opinion precisely that. No one has seen anything like this since before the 1960's. Rather than question whether the closure of estate agents is significant,laudable or whatever or telling me that in your area property is still selling look at the position in a month or two. I believe that many who view this site have had their property up for sale for months and only a very small number will have sold within weeks if they placed their property on the market in May or June of this year..
Last edited by Cape Blue; Jul 16th 2008 at 7:08 pm.
Jul 16th 2008, 7:25 pm
#112
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Brussels
Posts: 887
Re: how many making move
But : in 1990/91 , Lloyds and Barclays and ( then was ) Midland were only glad to give you 14% p.a. , on your squids ;
now : look at the pittance of ( taxed ) interest your savings attract today , plus a thoroughly believable scenario that any U.K. bank may fold alltogetrher , into insolvency , before tomorrow dawns...
now : look at the pittance of ( taxed ) interest your savings attract today , plus a thoroughly believable scenario that any U.K. bank may fold alltogetrher , into insolvency , before tomorrow dawns...
Jul 16th 2008, 7:48 pm
#113
Democracy advocate
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,460
Re: how many making move
But : in 1990/91 , Lloyds and Barclays and ( then was ) Midland were only glad to give you 14% p.a. , on your squids ;
now : look at the pittance of ( taxed ) interest your savings attract today , plus a thoroughly believable scenario that any U.K. bank may fold alltogetrher , into insolvency , before tomorrow dawns...
now : look at the pittance of ( taxed ) interest your savings attract today , plus a thoroughly believable scenario that any U.K. bank may fold alltogetrher , into insolvency , before tomorrow dawns...
Jul 16th 2008, 8:00 pm
#114
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: how many making move
They can't let the banks fail as that really would cause the fewmets to hit the windmill.
Jul 16th 2008, 8:22 pm
#115
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Brussels
Posts: 887
Re: how many making move
Maybe the U.S. will save it's banks ;
but , would you trust our Gord and Alistair D. and their Macchiavellist lot to save Anything - e.g. the banks , the pound , the City of London , the economy , the law & order , the face ...
but , would you trust our Gord and Alistair D. and their Macchiavellist lot to save Anything - e.g. the banks , the pound , the City of London , the economy , the law & order , the face ...
Jul 17th 2008, 7:02 am
#116
this is me
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Jerez
Posts: 832
Re: how many making move
Does any one know who owns the Fedral Bank of America, The Bank of London and the Vatican Bank ???
Jul 17th 2008, 7:24 am
#117
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 86
Re: how many making move
You could probably trust Gord and crew to save their own R's.
Jul 17th 2008, 7:31 am
#118
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 86
Re: how many making move
I agree that things are not yet as bad as 89/90 yet and also that there is a lot of negative thinking that only helps to make things worse.
Property in our area is still moving at sensible prices,albeit lower than 6 months ago. My property goes up for sale next month ,I will keep you informed.
Property in our area is still moving at sensible prices,albeit lower than 6 months ago. My property goes up for sale next month ,I will keep you informed.
Jul 17th 2008, 9:38 am
#119
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: how many making move
GB % Co are no different to DC & Co. All politicians are scum. On the whole I hate the tories more.
I still haven't forgiven them for the boom and bust that enriched their grasping friends while ruining the rest of us.
Jul 17th 2008, 10:01 am
#120
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: West Surrey now, Almeria soon.
Posts: 284
Re: how many making move
I agree that things are not yet as bad as 89/90 yet and also that there is a lot of negative thinking that only helps to make things worse.
Property in our area is still moving at sensible prices,albeit lower than 6 months ago. My property goes up for sale next month ,I will keep you informed.
Property in our area is still moving at sensible prices,albeit lower than 6 months ago. My property goes up for sale next month ,I will keep you informed.
People need to focus on what they CAN do, not what they CAN’T do.
The latest spate of helpless negative whinging on BE will kill it before long.