agoreira

4 years to be as fluent as in your own native language? I always said I was a slow learner! We had a Spanish teacher, English, fresh from university and studying in Mexico and Spain and no way would I rate her as fluent. Her Spanish was all grammatically correct, she'd passed all the required exams, but her vocabulary, accent, was sadly lacking. Two of us gave up the class for that very reason.

jimenato

What utter shite.

Lorna at Vicenza

Didn't you have a nicer way of being so blunt?

porcelainwhite

Elaborate then you idiot.

Lorna at Vicenza

Was it really necessary for you to be so blunt as well?

porcelainwhite

Sorry, I can't stand know-it alls who don't have any further education than their gcse's.

Lorna at Vicenza

Well forgive me for saying this but, you sound a little like a "know it all" yourself.

porcelainwhite

How am I a know it all?

Lorna at Vicenza

I didn't say you are. I said you sounded a little like one. I don't personally think you are a know it all.

The OP asked "how long did it take you to learn Spanish?" so let's stick to personal experiences shall we and forget the name calling?

porcelainwhite

The statement I made WAS my experience. Sorry that wasn't made clear. I studied a minimum of 30 mins a day, excluding weekends. Sometimes an hour, sometimes 45 minutes. You WILL be able to hold a convo after 4/5 months. Anyone who thinks it takes 20 years to become fluent is clearly on something.
But I guess when someone exceeds what you can after 12 years in less than 10% of the time it's natural to put that person down.

Lorna at Vicenza

If fluent means knowing every single word in the dictionary, it might take 20 years or more. As has been said before, fluent means different levels of language knowledge to different people.

I understand that you might feel affronted at the response to your post and your experience, and I'm asking everybody now to choose their words and just try to be nice. For a newcomer to the forum you've been just as quick to put people down

lynnxa

I'm not 'on' anything - I was giving examples of what my students say to me - but yes, I do believe that complete fluency isn't actually achievable when learning as an adult

if you think you were as fluent in English at age 5 as you will be at 55, then you are simply wrong - fluent for a 5 year old yes, but not really fluent

yes, you might be able to hold a conversation, as I can, on many topics - and as I could, hold a simple conversation after a year, if you put the work in

I guess it depends on what you term complete fluency



I don't know every word in the English dictionary, let alone the Spanish one - but there's usually one that I do know which will do just as well (in both languages)

as I said, it depends on your definition of fluency

to me, it would be to never have to grasp for a word, to be able to discuss everything - even things I'm not interested in (football, cars, boats, politics) as I can to a degree in English, but wouldn't attempt in Spanish - yes, I might know vocab - but I'm not interested enough to bother with the nitty gritty



as an aside - as you become more fluent in a second or subsequent language, do you become less so in your first?

I find myself grasping for the English word for things more & more, if it's something that I'm more used to saying in Spanish

Rosemary

I have a young friend who occasionally practices her English on me and if she suddenly asks me what something is in English I often flounder. Not because my Spanish is great (it is not) but just because she has caught me out at that moment. Sometimes we talk whole sentences before I come up with the correct word, and I am talking simple things, for example one day she pointed to a little bolt that was fastened to a door, she said the Spanish word for it and asked me the English word and I was totally thrown, so silly really.

Regarding fluency, to my way of thinking you start to learn your native language from tiny, during your lifetime you add and add to that language without really realising. Whenever you take on further education your word power increases more rapidly with words to do with the subject you are studying.

My word power increased due to my studies being focused on medical terminology, sociology, psychology etc, etc whereas my OH´s word power came from electronical, technical, engineering etc etc. We could easily converse with each other about each of our interests but obviously we did not necessarily know or totally understand in depth what the other was talking about.

In order to increase your knowledge of anything you have to have an interest in the subject. You can understand at a certain level without having a deep knowledge.

Some people are not interested in learning anything once they have left school. I knew a very intelligent man who never read a book, did not do any further study, was not interested in finding out about anything outside of his comfort zone yet you could have a good conversation with him and he was content with being who he was and was not always trying to be better than someone else.

People are all different, we have different learning patterns, different retention levels and different interests. There is no reason for anyone to feel superior about their abilities and no reason for anyone to feel inferior if they struggle. The important thing is to make the attempt to the best of your ability and not sit back and say that there is no point in bothering.

Rosemary

lynnxa

exactly - to try is the important thing!

and I think the majority do

most of us will know someone who seems to take pride in tha fact they can't speak a word of Spanish even after living here 'forever' - but I truly believe they are a very small minority

not everyone will ever be capable of holding a conversation - but if they can manage in a restaurant, bar & shops - then that might well be enough for them, for everyday living


in a bar I use, I see two English ladies meet each other once a week, they are probably in their 70s at least

they have a couple of coffees, and chat to each other in, quite frankly, grammatically appalling Spanish - but they are trying & they understand each other - & if you listen (as I do ) they are getting the words pretty much in the right order (although they miss just about all the pronouns out), using their limited vocab to pretty good effect, & get their point across - and a Spanish person would manage to understand them

I would never dream of correcting them, it would probably knock their confidence & they would stop trying - they clearly believe they speak great Spanish

Rosemary

It is not always what you are saying or how you are saying it either because sometimes it is the listener who just cannot be bothered. My OH went to the fishmonger the other day and asked for atun the girl did not get it at all and asked another assistant to listen to him, he said it again in the same way and low and behold this girl understood him clearly and could not understand why the other girl had a problem.

Rosemary