HBG

Having been ambushed by some rather angry ladies, I forgot to reply to some other posts on the thread.

I believe the inequality in life is caused by unequal education, especially in the UK. The public schools are far superior to state schools and consistently turn out a superior product.

It doesn't matter how clever you are, you will not thrive at an inner city comprehensive (or whatever they call them now); and a degree from some technical college now renamed as a university (the East London one is a real joke), will not compare with the real thing from Oxford or Edinburgh.

But parents need to have money, oodles of it, to provide their children with a head start in life, just like their grandparents had for them.

It doesn't matter which party we vote for, every party leader is a product of an expensive, private education, it simply can't be any other way. The occasional maverick comes through a socialist system, like Lord Prescott, but he was only strung along by a public schoolboy having a laugh.

That famous Queen whose name escapes me said, 'Let them have cake.' Blair said, 'Let them have Prescott.'

cricketman

As someone who got all As at GCSE and A-level, from a below average comprehensive, then I kind of agree, but disagree also

GCSEs and A-levels are not difficult first of all. You can get top marks just by reading the books (believe me!) so no need for any great teachers or anything

However, going to private school gives you the knowhow and confidence to do well in British society. The best jobs go to those who have the contacts and know what societies to join and what to say at interview, put on their CV etc

I didnt know anything about uni because I didnt know anyone who had ever been. Then at the end of my course finding a job was much more difficult then I expected because noone had ever given me the advice (because I didnt know anyone with a professional job!)

Still, a great learning experience for me, but it took me 2-3 years to find the kind of job I should have walked into earlier but didnt know how to do so.

Btw, the person I know who got the best job had a poor academic record but was captain of the uni rugby team at the best sports uni in the country. That gave him a fast track to a 6 figure job in Investment banking at 22 years old!

JLFS

Could that be the some of the problems with the banking industry that the jobs go to the best scrum halves with no qualifications to speak of.

What a load of R. Soles.

cricketman

Yes, he was a hard worker and loyal as the day is long

But not exactly the brighest bulb in the box. Not even bright enough to play scrum half, he was a flanker with cauliflower ears

He's raking it in now, 2 brand new beamers, house worth almost a million in Wimbledon..

He never even had a point of view on the crisis, just did what his bosses wanted

jackytoo

That is so true, they build their contacts for life. They are educated to believe they are the elite and it shows, better social skills etc. Went to Charterhouse recently to watch a kids football match and the sports facilities are amazing.

As HGB says whatver political party they are all the same clique.

HBG

I was a loyal lock, trying to push my way through life. It still works if someone upsets me and I've got a Mercadona trolley.

bil

I'd vote for banning Public schools. I certainly think that those, and church schools should never be allowed to be charities.

Were State schools allowed to have classes that small, and filter out the no hopers, then we would have no problems with state education.

Public school isn't about education, it's all about getting your child plugged into the old boy network. I forget the precise figures, but Public schools, while educating a tiny % of the population, turn out most of the judges, top rank coppers, army types and so on.

There will be no real equality while that continues.

cricketman

Exactly, its as if the the result of the game has already been decided, but they havent told you yet.

They like to pretend there are opportunities for all, but really its not like that. Its just what they say to stop you from hanging the elite from lamposts. Its like the "American dream", out of reach for almost everyone, like a mirage in the desert

Dick Dasterdly

I tend to go more with your version rather than that of HGV.
We have seen in recent years that it doesn't matter how just much money is thrown at State schools, those who can't be bothered to learn probably never will, while others who have the will to do so can still get on well and rise above it, though at the same time it's fair to admit that Public schoolgoers still have a distinct advantage.

cricketman

Yes studying isnt the real problem, it is expectations

I had friends who were fairly intelligent but didnt bother at all with school work because their friends and family dont have any qualifications and "did alright"

When I was 17 my own mum tried to disuade me from going to uni, saying I could get a job in a bank with my A-levels. Think she met working as a cashier Bless her, but she didnt know anyone with a good job. The only people you met with degrees im my home town were teachers and Drs

whitelinen

CMan, the backward peoples Cinderella.

He lived in a drawer till he was 17 and his family was so poor they had no hair on the front of their heads due to constant forelock tugging when they passed their betters.

(wheres the puking smiley when you need one?)

bil

It's true that there will always be children who are disruptive and no matter what you do they have no interest in learning.

However, there are a lot of children who, if helped earlier would return to the fold of learning as it were. Public schools invest in small classes and intensive learning. Since the state schools go the cheaper route of packing as many kids in a room and seemingly not caring whether they learn or not, why should we be surprised at the results. The surprise is that state schools do as well as they do.

Hands up anyone dumb enough to think that if the classroom sizes and teaching ethos were reversed, the public schools would still outdo the State ones?

cricketman

I think this is a bit of a red herring

People do well in public schools because they are surrounded by children who want to learn and have a good attitude towards learning. They also come from parents who have usually done the same themselves. So the whole culture is geared to good learning. Class sizes and "investment" are less important.

State schools are a truer reflection of society. The majority of kids are a pain in the ass, so if you can navigate your way out of that then that is a great life lesson, but not so great for finding the top jobs because they are run and full of people who come from the public school environment

bil

Exactly. If State schools were free of losers and dickheads, run in a positive encouraging way with the same level of parental support, and class sizes kept down to barely double figures, then state school results would soar.

As for class sizes, I agree they are less important in those circs, but they still are important.

Lynn R

This is not a fashionable point of view for a socialist, and I used to get a lot of stick for voicing it in those circles, but I do believe that the abolition of the grammar schools (or nearly all of them, a few do still survive) did a great deal of harm to the education and life expectations of bright working class children.

I've listened to all the arguments about how it is wrong to label children "failures" at the age of 11, but can anybody in their right mind still believe that comprehensive education actually benefits any child? What we seem to have now is a system where no-one is ever allowed to fail at anything lest it affect their self-esteem, resulting in almost every child who sits a GCSE or A level exam getting an A grade which is effectively worthless as the exams have been dumbed down to such an extent. I saw a GCSE maths question quoted in The Sunday Times recently - "Write the number 50,000 in words". What?????

I was awarded a free place by my local County Council after the 11 plus to one of the old "direct grant" grammar schools, where the majority of the places were for fee-paying pupils but the County Council funded a small number each year (I had to sit a separate entrance exam for the school of my choice as well). Not only was the education on offer first class, but the school's expectations of all the pupils were very high and I learned (not without some faux pas along the way) to mix with people with very different backgrounds to my own, and to believe that I could compete with them on an equal basis. Removing this kind of aid to social mobility is "pulling up the ladder" so that bright kids from the generations who came after those of us born up to the end of the 1950s never got the advantages that we did.