How close to the breadline?
Oct 14th 2011, 9:53 am
#31
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Re: How close to the breadline?
I know most of Spain and it doesn't exist at all, probably you are talking about out of the way pueblos with a load of inbreds and a lack of any culture. What would you know Stevie, your knowledge seems to only be of Madrid and tapas bars! Perhaps demolishing the costa concrete would be a start. It may get better as the economy gets worse, the spanish realise they have killed the golden goose perhaps they will attempt to get some things back and lose some of the arrogance.
I have just been to Italy and although I wouldn't want to live there the difference in friendliness and service is marked. The coast line is still stunning and not ravaged by third-world concrete blocks. Admittedly it is more expensive than Spain but I suppose you pay for what you get.
I have just been to Italy and although I wouldn't want to live there the difference in friendliness and service is marked. The coast line is still stunning and not ravaged by third-world concrete blocks. Admittedly it is more expensive than Spain but I suppose you pay for what you get.
Probably nick your false teeth as well if you slept with your mouth open.
Little wonder it's the home of the Mafia who have a sticky finger in nearly every pie.
Well as long as there's ppl. dumb enough to pay their exorbitant prices for rubbish service, I suppose it will never change for the better.
Oct 14th 2011, 9:55 am
#32
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
Location: Alicante province
Posts: 5,753
Re: How close to the breadline?
Such controversy over the simple subject of tax evasion. The North pay their taxes, the South don't. The North is prosperous, the South is skint.
Germany is in the middle, they too have a large black economy, but nowhere near Spain's.
There's only one conclusion. The Mediterranean countries will remain our poor cousins, like they've always been.
Germany is in the middle, they too have a large black economy, but nowhere near Spain's.
There's only one conclusion. The Mediterranean countries will remain our poor cousins, like they've always been.
Oct 14th 2011, 9:59 am
#33
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Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Madrid
Posts: 6,400
Re: How close to the breadline?
As usual in your headlong charge into defending anything slightly negative about Spain, you make mistakes. I said "the excellent AVE", nobody is questioning the quality of the train service, what is being argued (by a Spanish guy that knows far more than you or I about the subject) is the business model, it's spread over too large a country with too few people to ever be profitable. You talk about "predicted figures", that's where this system has failed abysmally, the actual figures have never been anywhere near the wildly optimistic predicted figures. You can tell us how well the lines are doing, the article clearly states "Es que todas las líneas de AVE en España son deficitarias", they are all losing money! It goes on to say that´s why richer, more populated countries like Germany, Japan, France have very few lines, and no plans to have any more. I´ll leave you to argue with yourself, you can perhaps you can talk it into being profitable. I´ll leave you with a quote though before I go from La Vanguardia.
Spain's high-speed trains unprofitable
The Spanish railway company Renfe will close the AVE high-speed rail link Toledo-Cuenca-Albacete on July 1 after only six months in operation. As with other routes on Spain's high-speed railway network - among the largest in the world - the demand was too low. The Spanish daily La Vanguardia pokes fun at the ridiculous waste of money for the project: "Everyone here wanted an AVE link to score at the ballot box. This ghost train with its empty carriages and more staff than passengers is the parable of a country that went to bed rich and woke up poor; and went on dreaming the day after. When Merkel read the news at breakfast yesterday she no doubt cursed all the money Germany had invested in this absurd project. She probably thought it would have been cheaper to give a Mercedes to each of the nine passengers the train averaged daily rather than backing this senseless project in the land of Don Quixote."
Buenas noches.
Spain's high-speed trains unprofitable
The Spanish railway company Renfe will close the AVE high-speed rail link Toledo-Cuenca-Albacete on July 1 after only six months in operation. As with other routes on Spain's high-speed railway network - among the largest in the world - the demand was too low. The Spanish daily La Vanguardia pokes fun at the ridiculous waste of money for the project: "Everyone here wanted an AVE link to score at the ballot box. This ghost train with its empty carriages and more staff than passengers is the parable of a country that went to bed rich and woke up poor; and went on dreaming the day after. When Merkel read the news at breakfast yesterday she no doubt cursed all the money Germany had invested in this absurd project. She probably thought it would have been cheaper to give a Mercedes to each of the nine passengers the train averaged daily rather than backing this senseless project in the land of Don Quixote."
Buenas noches.
If you can produce evidence that the Toledo-Madrid service is poorly taken up, or the Madrid to Valencia service, or the Madrid to Barcelona service is poorly taken up, you would have a point.
And as I pointed out - once the French network is connected end of next year, you'll see numbers go up even more. Remember that we are at the depths of a severe economic downturn. How many decades was it before the Channel Tunnel (or even privatised British Rail) was able to turn a profit?
Lastly - to correct your commonly repeated jibe "headlong charge into defending anything slightly negative about Spain" I have always been open about negative things in Spain (as I find them - I appreciate that we all have a bias) . Search for pickpockets in Madrid (or Barcelona) or the difficulty in getting decent tea (or even paying the bill in decent time) and you'll find my username crop up. Please don't judge me by your own blinkered opinions! I even admit to disliking the heat of the Spanish summer - give me a shower in London in July, any day!
Oct 14th 2011, 10:00 am
#34
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Re: How close to the breadline?
Oct 14th 2011, 10:01 am
#35
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Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Madrid
Posts: 6,400
Re: How close to the breadline?
I have been everywhere, don't have to rely on google like some. Had connections to Spain since I was in nappies. I read Sur daily because it was my local newpaper and have friends and relatives there so it is my natural interest. Sorry galicia is beautiful (for a visit) but I would stick pins in my eyes before living there! It is you who doesn't know about Spain, anyone would be aware reading between the lines of your posts that you sit on the computer picking up stuff from google and fantacising about the place.
Oct 14th 2011, 10:02 am
#36
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Living in a good place
Posts: 8,824
Re: How close to the breadline?
Such controversy over the simple subject of tax evasion. The North pay their taxes, the South don't. The North is prosperous, the South is skint.
Germany is in the middle, they too have a large black economy, but nowhere near Spain's.
There's only one conclusion. The Mediterranean countries will remain our poor cousins, like they've always been.
Germany is in the middle, they too have a large black economy, but nowhere near Spain's.
There's only one conclusion. The Mediterranean countries will remain our poor cousins, like they've always been.
Oct 14th 2011, 10:30 am
#37
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: How close to the breadline?
Two euros ? Thats a bargain.
It was the equivalent of six quid in St Marks square twenty five years ago.
They even advise you to book and pay for the toilet on the internet well in advance of a visit.
How sad can that be ?
Possibly the most over-rated,over-priced country in Europe and I never saw anything to match the better areas of Spain.
"Been everywhere" jacky ?..... now I know you cannot be serious.
I doubt that anyone who has lived all their life in Spain could seriously claim to have been everywhere.
Never mind jacky, I bet the Italian mafia just love you.
It was the equivalent of six quid in St Marks square twenty five years ago.
They even advise you to book and pay for the toilet on the internet well in advance of a visit.
How sad can that be ?
Possibly the most over-rated,over-priced country in Europe and I never saw anything to match the better areas of Spain.
"Been everywhere" jacky ?..... now I know you cannot be serious.
I doubt that anyone who has lived all their life in Spain could seriously claim to have been everywhere.
Never mind jacky, I bet the Italian mafia just love you.
Oct 14th 2011, 10:35 am
#38
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Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Living in a good place
Posts: 8,824
Re: How close to the breadline?
Average coffee was 4 euro in nice surroundings. If you want to talk about rip offs what about the thousands of Brits who have lost hundreds of thousand each in property rip-offs in Spain. It is all over the internet, Facebook etc.
A lot of the mafia have moved over to Spain. One of my neighbours was arrested a few years ago, he was implicated in 40 murders in Italy.
A lot of the mafia have moved over to Spain. One of my neighbours was arrested a few years ago, he was implicated in 40 murders in Italy.
Oct 14th 2011, 10:37 am
#39
Not Banned (yet)
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Madrid
Posts: 6,400
Re: How close to the breadline?
Two euros ? Thats a bargain.
It was the equivalent of six quid in St Marks square twenty five years ago.
They even advise you to book and pay for the toilet on the internet well in advance of a visit.
How sad can that be ?
Possibly the most over-rated,over-priced country in Europe and I never saw anything to match the better areas of Spain.
"Been everywhere" jacky ?..... now I know you cannot be serious.
I doubt that anyone who has lived all their life in Spain could seriously claim to have been everywhere.
Never mind jacky, I bet the Italian mafia just love you.
It was the equivalent of six quid in St Marks square twenty five years ago.
They even advise you to book and pay for the toilet on the internet well in advance of a visit.
How sad can that be ?
Possibly the most over-rated,over-priced country in Europe and I never saw anything to match the better areas of Spain.
"Been everywhere" jacky ?..... now I know you cannot be serious.
I doubt that anyone who has lived all their life in Spain could seriously claim to have been everywhere.
Never mind jacky, I bet the Italian mafia just love you.
I'd like to meet the person in most countries who's claimed to have been "everywhere". Even here in England it must take some doing to have seen every part of the country. Luxembourg in one lifetime, perhaps! I do contract work currently in the UK, and have been based recently in Docklands. Quite an eye opener, and I suspect a good proportion of the 9 million Londoners (apart from the local East Enders) have never explored this part of London.
Oct 14th 2011, 10:55 am
#40
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: How close to the breadline?
Average coffee was 4 euro in nice surroundings. If you want to talk about rip offs what about the thousands of Brits who have lost hundreds of thousand each in property rip-offs in Spain. It is all over the internet, Facebook etc.
A lot of the mafia have moved over to Spain. One of my neighbours was arrested a few years ago, he was implicated in 40 murders in Italy.
A lot of the mafia have moved over to Spain. One of my neighbours was arrested a few years ago, he was implicated in 40 murders in Italy.
Round my way good neighbours are a top selling point for most properties and mine are pure gold, but there again it's much the same at my home village in the UK.
Oct 14th 2011, 4:33 pm
#41
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Joined: Apr 2010
Location: London (mainly)/Oliva
Posts: 2,137
Re: How close to the breadline?
Another excellent post Dick.
I'd like to meet the person in most countries who's claimed to have been "everywhere". Even here in England it must take some doing to have seen every part of the country. Luxembourg in one lifetime, perhaps! I do contract work currently in the UK, and have been based recently in Docklands. Quite an eye opener, and I suspect a good proportion of the 9 million Londoners (apart from the local East Enders) have never explored this part of London.
I'd like to meet the person in most countries who's claimed to have been "everywhere". Even here in England it must take some doing to have seen every part of the country. Luxembourg in one lifetime, perhaps! I do contract work currently in the UK, and have been based recently in Docklands. Quite an eye opener, and I suspect a good proportion of the 9 million Londoners (apart from the local East Enders) have never explored this part of London.
I love London, always something to do.
Just for balance I also love Spain.
Oct 14th 2011, 8:01 pm
#42
MODERATOR
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Location: Costa Valencia
Posts: 14,813
Re: How close to the breadline?
Graham
Oct 14th 2011, 9:10 pm
#43
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Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Velez-Malaga
Posts: 4,963
Re: How close to the breadline?
Come on, we covered this back in August. The Toledo-Cuenca-Albacete service is a SERvICE. No lines or stations have been closed.
If you can produce evidence that the Toledo-Madrid service is poorly taken up, or the Madrid to Valencia service, or the Madrid to Barcelona service is poorly taken up, you would have a point.
And as I pointed out - once the French network is connected end of next year, you'll see numbers go up even more. Remember that we are at the depths of a severe economic downturn. How many decades was it before the Channel Tunnel (or even privatised British Rail) was able to turn a profit?
Lastly - to correct your commonly repeated jibe "headlong charge into defending anything slightly negative about Spain" I have always been open about negative things in Spain (as I find them - I appreciate that we all have a bias) . Search for pickpockets in Madrid (or Barcelona) or the difficulty in getting decent tea (or even paying the bill in decent time) and you'll find my username crop up. Please don't judge me by your own blinkered opinions! I even admit to disliking the heat of the Spanish summer - give me a shower in London in July, any day!
If you can produce evidence that the Toledo-Madrid service is poorly taken up, or the Madrid to Valencia service, or the Madrid to Barcelona service is poorly taken up, you would have a point.
And as I pointed out - once the French network is connected end of next year, you'll see numbers go up even more. Remember that we are at the depths of a severe economic downturn. How many decades was it before the Channel Tunnel (or even privatised British Rail) was able to turn a profit?
Lastly - to correct your commonly repeated jibe "headlong charge into defending anything slightly negative about Spain" I have always been open about negative things in Spain (as I find them - I appreciate that we all have a bias) . Search for pickpockets in Madrid (or Barcelona) or the difficulty in getting decent tea (or even paying the bill in decent time) and you'll find my username crop up. Please don't judge me by your own blinkered opinions! I even admit to disliking the heat of the Spanish summer - give me a shower in London in July, any day!
Some of the revenue deficiencies in these infrastructure projects are down to inefficiences and bad planning in the way they are operated, IMO. A small scale example is the tranvia between Velez-Malaga, where I live, and the coast at Torre del Mar. When it began operating, the public transport company which runs it continued to operate their buses on the same route, which surprise, surprise, leave at exactly the same times as the tranvia does. Would you believe it, the passenger numbers did not reach projected levels which has resulted in a massive deficit for the Ayuntamiento and the Mayor has this week announced that the tranvia is to cease operating from 1 November. But this has been threatened several times before and there has been a last minute reprieve, so vamos a ver! Also, the fares were set very high, I did read that it was the most expensive form of public transport in Spain, and they do not seem to grasp that if you make the fare cheaper, the take-up will increase.
Oct 14th 2011, 9:15 pm
#44
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Location: Living in a good place
Posts: 8,824
Re: How close to the breadline?
Well I actually sold mine and not at a loss. On the surface he was a good neighbour. Lovely home and garden and a family man. Once when OH was away there was a leak in the sprinkler system and he came and fixed it. Most of my neighbours were pure gold, spanish Lawyers and other professionals
Oct 14th 2011, 9:16 pm
#45
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
Location: Alicante province
Posts: 5,753
Re: How close to the breadline?
I meet a Spanish neighbour on a regular basis and we discuss everything under the sun, as equals. We are able to have those discussions because we live in similar houses, own similar cars and probably have similar incomes.
In any comparison between the two races, you have to do it on a like for like basis, otherwise it doesn't make sense. A wealthy expat moving into a poverty stricken mountain village may as well move into a Zoo, because he will always be regarded as something from outer space by the locals.
Lately, when I meet up with my Spanish neighbour, we've stopped discussing how we dislike our oldest son's choice of partner, we've even cut short our football talks; it's all about the Crisis now, and what's going to happen next - will we get the Peseta back?
In any comparison between the two races, you have to do it on a like for like basis, otherwise it doesn't make sense. A wealthy expat moving into a poverty stricken mountain village may as well move into a Zoo, because he will always be regarded as something from outer space by the locals.
Lately, when I meet up with my Spanish neighbour, we've stopped discussing how we dislike our oldest son's choice of partner, we've even cut short our football talks; it's all about the Crisis now, and what's going to happen next - will we get the Peseta back?
