chrisw

What a terrible thing to have your home demolished and being so utterly helpless! This house was demolished whilst in the LEGAL process of appealing on what would appear to be valid legal grounds under both Spanish constitutional and European laws. That does not surprise me as this does seem to be the Spanish way of making unwanted and unpopular issues going away, avoiding prolonged media attention. But I definately smell a rat here.
The initial Telagraph article posted by Nige advises planning permission was granted and that the couple were to recieve compenstation (albeit that Mrs Prior stated that she would believe that when she saw it!).
There is then another article posted by Jean which advises that the house was illegal as no planning permission. That being the case, why are the Council paying compensation? If they considered this an illegal build then they wouldn't be paying compensation!
Bob and spent a week in Vera on holiday last year and tried to see as much as possible of the surrounding area while we were there. I picked up a local newspaper in Mojacar, and the big news at that time was that the mayor of Carboneras had been had up on corruption charges!
This sort of widespread corruption and ambiguity or conflict between local and central government legislation is, and will continue to be damaging to Spain as a nation. It is not in the best interest of anyone, be they immigrants investors or Spanish Nationals, for it to continue.
We have already purposely been avoiding the Valencia area when looking at property, so as to avoid possible land grab issues. Then there is the additional problem of urbanization and further potential ILLEGAL charges in relation to it. Now it seems we are also to be wary of Almeria.
If this trend continues, buying property in Spain will become less attractive. That will leave fewer buyers and and an increasinly growing number of houses remaining unsold and thereby substantially reducing in value. This may not be good news for developers if they cannot sustain reasable profit margins.
I don't think this is all part of any great conspiracy, but rather corruption gone crazy. Perhaps the answer should not be sought in concentrating soley in the uniformity of local and central legislation, but in also holding government officials both personally, and criminally acountable for their actions or failure to act appropriately. Personally I think it very unfair that the Spanish people are becoming tainted because of the behavour of crooked officials.
Furthermore, did the Government not try to wipe the slate clean of these so called illegal builds by announcing an amnesty whereby people who had propery deemed "illegal" could pay a fine to legalise it? What happened to that? Has the time expired or what?
Lets hope that there is a resolution not just for Mr and Mrs Prior, but everyone else who has been affected by one or more of these issues.
Chris

casaromero

I think Icortez is right in that an action group is neeed. Below is a post I have already made on Andalucia.com:-

"It is no use wringing our hands and saying how bad this is. We have to do something now. Demolitions are starting all over Andalucia.

There is now a clear case of abuse of political power. No doubt the politicos in Seville feel they are doing the right thing for their country (as did Hitler, Amin and Mugabe ) but it is the way they are going about it that is wrong. The problem is that they know the right judges to go to in Andalucia to get their actions approved. Action has to be taken outside Andalucia and the only body able to do this without rebuttal on ´sovereign state grounds is the EU.

This has to go to the European Court of Human Rights. This, however, is a daunting prospect and needs someone with knowledge influence to lead the challenge. The obvious choice to me is Michael Cashman MEP. Does anyone still have contact with him?

This will inevitably involve costs and probably a ´Fighting Fund´ is in order. This affects pretty well every property built on rustic land in the last 20 years or so (even the 10,000 sq. m rule was really for agricultural use only – like the UK ) so a lot of people have a lot to lose. I for one would be prepared to contribute – how about others.

lee8

Has anybody noticed how the Spanish media arn`t interested.

Its not exactly big news, and if the media can`t be bothered.

Econ

People can loose their home anywhere, it probably happens more on the coastal areas because the coast has expanded so quickly and no or very little thought has been put on infrastructure, place this along with corruption in abundance within authoritative positions and everything becomes a disaster, even without the corruption it's a disaster. There is currently a problem in Alhaurín el Grande in the south because of road plans, but it's all logical, build properties, need roads.

Think about this also, the roads in the south are close to collapse some times in the winter never mind at prime time in the summer. There are thousands upon thousands of properties in areas that have no occupancy at all or very low and many more thousands not having been sold... what happens when it suddenly sinks in that there is not the infastructure in roads to handle a 100% occupancy, but there is no land in these areas either? because even as much as we think it should have sunk in by now... it hasn't, land is still being cleared for construction. Just sticking a road into the campo will not help the flow around the many congested areas of Mijas Costa as I am sure it won't in other areas either. Currently if two cars bang bumpers on the N340 the whole road shuts down... generally on both sides as the drivers * stop * to look, there is no or very liitle you can do because there is no alternative route.

The problem with this couples situation is that it was 'for all intendant purposes' legal, the papers needed to have a legal property where available and these people are being criminalized because the authorities where corrupt. I doubt this would happen anywhere else in a European country that has been a member of the EU as long as Spain.

Spain has expanded at a colossal rate over the last 10 years, if you don't know how to handle expansion at this rate then it won't be done properly.

Corruption in many areas of business was a part of the function of Spanish life, a bung here and a bung there, generally small amounts of money but high property prices changed that and generated an enormous greed for more which flowed out into other areas, notarios, lawers, police etc. I am of the beleif that powers higher up knew what was going on, maybe not the detail but that it existed, this government and the last, it was just accepted as a part of life in Spain and probably even reached those areas.

Anyone can be guilty of being short sighted but this seems to be a built in trait of being Spanish, they generally think of today and not tomorrow... but they never had to think of tomorrow and that was one of the * valuable * things that Spain had, one that blended in so well with Spanish life... but the last 10 years are different, this is not Spain of yesteryear and sadly this short sightedness that was part of a lovely care free lifestyle has now created many of the current problems and by the looks of things... will now possibly kill off a lot of the remaining investment opertunities that may have still existed for some.

Lionda

The same is happening in this area, demolishment notices have been put on a few properties here and in the meantime heavy fines imposed (around 5000 euros) whilst the issue of demolishment is being fought by the owners. We are currently renting a villa with a demolishment order on it, the owners live nearby with a demolishment order on their home also. They bought legally, have all the paperwork and have lived here for a number of years. Now they are being told the buildings (both reforms) are illegal!

I have also discovered that there is a lot of greasing of palms in this area, as in most parts of Spain, particularly where new urbanisations are concerned

Econ

Recently I was working on a property beside an apartment block where building had been stopped, It was a Saturday and a couple of people carriers arrived during the day, I couldn't hear all that was being said just things like 'Very nice place', 'it's a quiet area', sounded like sales pitches...

jandy44

Its just sickening to hear all this,something must be done surely ,not only are they demmolishing villa's all over the place but there are hundreds of property's empty, these will become the slums of the future,no one is going to want to invest their money in property in Spain whilst there is the obvious corruption and it appears one can't trust anyone,it really needs the European Court of Human Rights to step in urgently ,Spain has been a member of the EU since 1986 surely the EU goverment aren't going to just sit back and do nothing

twyntub

Same problem here. The effect is not only to create urbanisations with 'questionable' legal standing, but also an impossible demand for minor things like water, electricity and drainage that cannot be met by the existing infrastructure.

So called 'builders supplies' are used by developers like sellotape and mirrors to encourage people to complete - hiding the fact that people may never be officially connected as there simply isn't enough official supply to go around.

And when the developer leaves, they simply turn off the lights.

OCRAZ

A friend of mine in Huelva was threatened the same as their house was illegal and they quoted them the EU Law which apparently says once you have lived in the house for 4 years, you cannot be touched. Not sure how true this is in general (worth looking into) but it worked for them. In my opinion if the Town Hall personnel were not honest, it is the responsibility of the Andalucian Government, after all they employed them. These families should not have their houses bulldozed or at least be offered the full market value or their house rebuilt. Other point is to sue the lawyer who they have paid to legally buy the house-probably take up to 15 years though.

Econ

Sadly a large part of the problem * is * the Andalucian Government.

lcortez

There already is a challenge to this being mounted in the European Court,the case is scheduled for hearing in 2 yrs time!!!What is it with you Brits and research
Personally dont see why Micheal Cashman is the man for the job,as he has already tried and lost
Comparisons with Hitler are just plain stupid,dont see why Hitler is continously being invoked by Brits at the slightest opp,that war has been over for 62yrs,live in the present
And once again,for the third time,it is a LOOPHOLE in the LUV law that is being exploited by unscrupoulous builders,it is not merely a case of corrupt officials accepting backhanders!!!!!
This information is all available with just 2-5 muns Googling,but I guess that would involve actually doing some research!!!!

Nige

lcortez
I thought that Vera / Albox was not in the Valencia administrative area ? What are you on about ? How has the LUV been applied in the Priors case ? Please explain.

jandy44

Valencia LUV endagers homes................

NEWS HERE

Econ

lcortez , I think you need to read the posts and not just the words, if you don't take the blinkers off mate you will have problems with a lot of the posts here, as on any foro.

I think people know there is more involved than just corruption but corruption has been the biggest cause of problems with properties built 'so called' legally and being declared not.

lee8

The quarry near Alhaurin de La Torre is a huge piece of land lost, and suprise the owners don`t have a license to quarry in the area, and permission has never been given.

This quarry supply most of the construction in not only Costa Del Sol but the whole South coast.

And is completely illegal, and ignored not only by the Junta, but also the National govt.

Lets hope the mountain doesn`t collapse.

Heres a page about the impact and some photos.

http://homepages.tesco.net/~Philip.Sutton/canteras.htm

This is from 1999, the site has trebled since then.