High Electric Bill
 

With all those windmills, using free energy, how can Spain have the most expensive electricity bills in the world?!
Lo han conseguido! La electricidad española es la más cara del mundo

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Because Endesa is about the most powerful company in Spain, with their hands in the pockets of most politicians.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Must be a mistake, I've always been told on here that everything is as cheap as chips in Spain, far cheaper than UK.
Un dato sin confirmar, un ciudadano londinense paga un tercio de lo que paga un español por el recibo de la luz a pesar de las diferencias salariales.
Got to be a mistake.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Best get used to it, I believe there's more rises to come, waters tripled in price rates have also tripled in price, Electric still has a little way to go:thumbdown:

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Because green energy isnt free energy, the infrastructure costs are actually very expensive

Green energy is actually twice as expensive as fossil fuels

And of course, Spain has almost no fossil fuels, just a bit of coal and natural gas, has to import the rest, expensive!

Nothing to do with monopolies, the energy companies have been making a huge loss for years

Whoever wrote that electricity should be more expensive in London because they earn more is an idiot, we're not talking about the price of a cup of coffee

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Mainly because the government have been controlling the tariffs to domestic users at an artificially low rate for a long time.

They are now having to reduce this to some extent and bills are increasing accordingly.

If you are not on the government controlled TUR tariff the rates have gone up by far more.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

It's not even a Spanish company anymore - it's Italian owned.

Iberdrola is about the same size and still Spanish controlled.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Reading the original Spanish note again, I see it's dated March 2012. There's been a 7% additional increase in electricity rates since then and another one now in July.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Not that many years. Here's Endesa's 2010 stats (compiled last year):

Type Sociedad Anónima
Traded as BMAD: ELE
Industry Public utility
Founded 1944
Headquarters Madrid, Spain
Key people Andrea Brentan (CEO), Borja Prado Eulate (Chairman)
Services Electricity generation and distribution
Revenue €31.18 billion (2010)
Operating income €5.031 billion (2010)
Profit €4.129 billion (2010)
Total assets €62.59 billion (end 2010)
Total equity €23.16 billion (end 2010)
Employees 25,580 (average, 2010)
Parent Enel
Website endesa.com

I recently read their profits dipped below 4 Billion last year, and this signalled shareholders to demand significant restructuring. The restructuring included lobbying the government for rate hikes or face a 20% reduction of staff (which would be political suicide).

By the way, since Endesa employs over 25000 people it's really more of a subsidy, not a "tariff control". You and I pay for for the "artificially low rates".

apparently the new rate hikes solved the problem of not enough profit... for this quarter, anyway...

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Yes, by loss, I meant loss on the amount paid by the consumers, before the government subsidy

The government have been phasing their subsidies out. I think by next year there wont be any

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Well good point, I mentioned on here that my electric bills in the Uk are still less than I paid in Spain almost 2 years ago. Although we still see posters saying they pay about 20€ a month and run more stuff than I do/did:rofl:

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Yeah but sitting indoors with coats on in winter aint every bodies cuppa T:rofl:

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Iberdrola is effectively, a billing company. They simply sell energy from Endesa at a small discount, and take over billing for it.

The main thing Iberdrola offers is a small discount on off-peak hours. Otherwise, pretty much the same as Endesa. Well, actually it is Endesa, billed by Iberdrola.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Not true - look it up on Google!

It is a major Spanish energy producing company and has nothing to do with Endesa!

There are loads of Spanish energy companies in the free market who can supply electricity.

Yes, your particular units may come from one particular generating company who produce it but another company can bill it.

In certain parts of Spain one company produces it and in another part another company also does - they can also bill consumers in parts of the country that they do not produce. Iberdrola is based in the north of Spain, Endesa in the south.

We are in the south and are supplied by Endesa but billed by Iberdrola.

In Bilbao you would be supplied by Iberdrola and you could be billed by Endesa.

These companies are all producers but they are able to also bill consumers outside of their production area under the Mercado Libre rules.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Has amideislas misunderstood something?

Surely not! :rofl:

Re: High Electric Bill
 

They must be the one's that can live well on €10 a day.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Shit, just wire around your meter and get it for free (I have no doubts some actually attempt this).

Re: High Electric Bill
 

I never understood the UK system where someone puts electricity on to a cable and someone else bills the consumer for it.
Same goes for water.

Was a time in the not too dim and distant past that all utilities were public owned, none of this shaving bits off here and there, all having to make their profits and charging the consumer for infrastructure they can never own, whilst paying out good money to "shareholders"
.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

If I'm mistaken, my apologies.

Here, there is ONLY Endesa. That's it. But to create the illusion that there is "competition" in the market, there are a number of alternative power companies available which you may choose to contract to take over the billing of Endesa's power supply.

Iberdrola is one of them. They give you a few cents discount for off-peak consumption. Otherwise, Endesa supplies all the power and the technical maintenance.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

I can't get my head around it either. I changed electric co. some months ago after being offered £150 off the bill if I merged it with the gas co. All I had to do was give a meter reading and bank acc. details:confused:

Re: High Electric Bill
 

No need to apologise - it's a common misunderstanding.

There are quite a lot of generating companies in Spain, some small and very local, others covering half the country. Down here in the south, Endesa is the major supplier, in the north it's Iberdrola and they have loads of power stations including 5 nuclear plants and the biggest windfarm in Europe!

This "cross billing" has always confused me especially when you end up buying gas from an electricity company!

Your comments about the small discount they give if you change over is because all tariffs supplied to normal domestic customers are still government controlled so they don't actually have much room to haggle on price. They just end up tweaking the monthly charge or as you say, playing around with the peak/off peak rates if you are on the dual tariff.

If, like us, you are on a high potencia tariff the differences can be quite large which is why we changed from Endesa to Iberdrola.

There is a website which allows you to check out what deals are available based on your actual consumption. If you come under the 10kw or less tariff you will see there is very little difference but if you try the "free market" tariffs which only apply to the high potencia customers there is a very big difference. The bad news is that all these free market tariffs are higher than the controlled lower tariffs.

http://www.comparador.cne.es/compara...x.cfm?js=1&e=N

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Thanks, Fred.

Well, we finally managed to get our "obligatory" 10.8Kw contract changed to 5Kw. Despite their guarantees that the change was 100% "gratuito", it only costed about €350, substantially less than the installation of the ICP (also "gratuito"), for example. Unfortunately, we still have to pay 10c per day for the "rental" of the ICP which I purchased outright. Hmmph!

Now, our facturas (always "estimado") actually somewhat resemble our actual consumption, instead of consistently receiving shocking €800 facturas when we've actually consumed €80.

Anyway, we called Iberdrola, and they sent a very nice lady to our home to evaluate what benefits they could offer us. But since we are no longer "obliged" to pay astronomical "estimado" facturas, they were very honest and told us they could only save us a few Euros, and the cost of switching would actually cost more than the savings. But at least they were honest about it.

Although we still have a monopoly here, I am pleased to see that some of the "monopolies" that rule the rest of this country are slowly being eradicated. It's about time.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Which, with the IVA going up on Monday by 3 points, will mean another increase in the electric bill (see the entertainer online)

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Have you not heard of coal fired computers, washing machines and you can still get those irons that you can put coal in.:huh:

;)

Re: High Electric Bill
 

The way things are going I can see Donkeys making a comeback.
Lots of free fuel along the roadside and everything recycled and put to good use one way or another.

What could be better,though maybe er indoors will have to walk along behind as my 20 stone plus the shopping will be enough for the donkey.

On the other hand the filthy rich will probably have two, an is and an ers with twin stables to match.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Ideal for a night at the Pub, where would they stick the breathalyser?

Re: High Electric Bill
 

will you be able to tell they are filthy rich donkeys by the posh hats they wear ?
do Harrods do a hat for donkey's ?

if you have enough donkeys you will be able to save electricity by generating methane from the rear end - but not as acidic, toxic or prolific as a herd of cows

Re: High Electric Bill
 

That settles it. With all those factors in favour and few if any drawbacks, a donkey ranch it is for me.
They'll be earning money 24hrs a day even when stabled and I hope they don't expect weekends off with extra hay, cos it will be down to the beach and rides for the kids, a nice little earner.
Probably an exciting new experience for Spanish youngsters,should go well.
Shall have to give one of them free rides in return for following along behind and picking up for the rest of the day with a bucket and spade, just the job for my roses.
Burros are the future. :thumbsup:

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Can we drop the donkey and get back to kilowatts?

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Ah but this isn't a dead donkey Fred.

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear but my intention is to utilise the donkey bi-products in order to power a generator to produce electricity.

Not sure how many kilowatts it will be, but in these desperate times every little helps. :)

Re: High Electric Bill
 

people have commented about the hit their electricity bill gets in the summer - due to having a fan on

well I looked at the manufacturers plate on a couple of fans here and although probably almost 10 years old they are rated at 60w
this means that having one on for 10 hours = 600w
or if on for 24hrs = 1440w = 1.44 units of electricity
if the unit is say 20c (have no idea at time of writing) then that fan
has "spent" approx 30c

so the bill is being hit by something else other than a fan
but if you have 10 fans running 24hrs a day then that is something else.
:eek:

so if you were to convert to donkey power and have a treadmill or a similar device then you could put a donkey to generate at those times most needed - such as when Coronation Street is on.
unless you are from the Posh thread when you would get the chauffeur to use it along with the household keepfit program for employees.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

The fridge and freezer struggling in the summer heat ?

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Sadly I have no space to keep a donkey, although I suppose at a pinch we could keep it in the living room which is where a lot of our Spanish neighbours park their motos.

I have a fan on in the bedroom most nights in summer, certainly this year (last year and the one before must have been cooler as I probably needed a fan on no more than 10 nights) and it hardly seems to make any difference at all to my electricity bill. Thankfully.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

tried moving them away from the wall and putting a fan to blow at the back?

also check how often they are opened, it makes a huge difference if you are continually opening for the G&T (or whatever) ice.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

We could try bu11sh1t-fired power stations, there is plenty of that around.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

most of the bulls are in the Middle and North of Spain

Re: High Electric Bill
 

I asked you once nicely - now get back on topic please.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Unfortunately Coronation St. coincides with the Donkeys evening mealtime and I'm damned if I'm going on the treadmill, so if er indoors wants to watch it she'll have to get her own ass into gear.



to create electricity of course.

Re: High Electric Bill
 

all those who have tried to run from the high electricery bills by installing photo-voltaic, wind, heat pump or even water forms of energy generation
have seen their payback eroded because the high payback for feeding to the grid has been drastically cut.

it costs alot to buy in the infrastructure and it has to be maintained or the replacement cost is high.

perhaps instead of becoming budding donkey entrepreneurs, after all the donkeys need to be fed, watered and checked by expensive vets, we should find some way of become power generators, get investors and shareholders and start making real money
:thumbsup:

Re: High Electric Bill
 

Heating water for showers and baths costs a lot of electricity.
Has anyone installed a low-tech solar boiler?
(I don't mean one equipped with solar panels.)