Is this heating/cooling system for real
#62
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real
Take a typical 100m2 2 bed single story Spanish villa of recent construction, assume it's a 10m x 10m square, with 3m high walls.
100mm concrete has a thermal coefficient of 4 W/m2K. Assuming the house is built directly onto the earth, we can also assume a thermal coefficient of 0.7W/m2K for the floor. Negating the effects of windows, drafts, and steel doors, we can therefore calculate the minimum heat loss as a function delta-T:
100mm concrete has a thermal coefficient of 4 W/m2K. Assuming the house is built directly onto the earth, we can also assume a thermal coefficient of 0.7W/m2K for the floor. Negating the effects of windows, drafts, and steel doors, we can therefore calculate the minimum heat loss as a function delta-T:
#64
Banned
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 11
Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real
interesting this, seen threads on this on another forum, started off by someone who has a franchise, they called the thread the death of a/c and really slagged off how bad a/c was. i do not see how this works without alot of condensation causing damp problems when cooling.
Anything that offers an alternative has got to be worth looking at!
#65
Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real
Actually, there are plenty of alternatives, according to the TV last night there are Government grants available if you go low carbon like biomass.
#67
Banned
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 11
Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real
So apart from the fact that air-con is the cheapest most efficient form of heating available, what is it you don't like about it?
Actually, there are plenty of alternatives, according to the TV last night there are Government grants available if you go low carbon like biomass.
Actually, there are plenty of alternatives, according to the TV last night there are Government grants available if you go low carbon like biomass.
Felt dried out after youv'e been in its presence for too long?
Sat in an office with air con and seen one person go down with a cold and watched as everyone else followed in double time?
Or seen the ugly dripping tin box shoved on the side of a beautiful building?
Efficient?..the moment..no the milli second you turn it off the temperature in the room rises..so on it goes again.
The cheapest form of heating?...RUBBISH...you want to see my energy bill!
Since you seem to have been judge and jury on this Calfri thing without actually ever having experienced it...I don't expect you to be open minded...small minded yes!
If it actually does perform the way it is supposed to, it would blow air-con(excuse the pun) clear out of the water in terms of efficiency and economy so I for one will be looking into it further rather than make inane sweeping statements about something I know absolutely nothing about yet.
As for the guy who put it all together..Iv'e looked into him..he is quite a prolific and very successful inventor and business man who concentrates on producing things for mainly eco friendly reasons. He has been featured on the BBC and in the press and his toothbrush was not just a toothbrush....it has been taken on by none other than the British Military because it is a simple but brilliant way of stopping cross contamination between the toothbrush and the tube of paste.
Stopping your troops going down one by one when out in the field is a bit of a priority by all accounts.
His solar light benches are made of completely recycled materials and have been purchased to the tune of 10'000 pieces by the worlds biggest retailer, Wallmart as well as Tesco in the UK. The council of Majorca have recently taken delivery of a huge shipment to the island also. Somehow Im guessing that none of the aforementioned organisations are total mugs and Im also guessing that they dont listen to the voices on here.
Hey..did you know man landed on the moon yet?....and guess what, that thing that was the size of a car battery years ago that allowed you to make phone calls from anywhere is now the size of a credit card!
And what about the micro chip?...did you see the size of computers in the 60's and 70's..you know the ones that originally filled an entire room!...well now the components are so small you almost need a microscope to assemble them.
If forums were around way back when...one thing is for sure...you lot would have been on there shaking your heads and screaming "poppy cock" to any mention of the idea!
#68
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 474
Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real
I agree with you, as you can see I've been wanting to explore this more by my other posts.
Keep us posted
DSB.
#69
Banned
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 11
Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real
The chap who put it all together seems a thoroughly decent bloke, well regarded in his chosen field and extremely successful to boot!
I have even found out that he has some sort of personal association with James Dyson the bagless vacum inventor...perhaps they just move in the same cirlcles!...oops theres a pun for the the new Dyson 'ball' vacum!
Anyway..he ain't no mug! and I love the concept of the system...
Bye for now.
#70
Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real
No
[QUOTE=perper;8029877
Efficient?..the moment..no the milli second you turn it off the temperature in the room rises..so on it goes again.[/QUOTE]
Only if you don't insulate your home!
If it actually does perform the way it is supposed to, it would blow air-con(excuse the pun) clear out of the water in terms of efficiency and economy so I for one will be looking into it further rather than make inane sweeping statements about something I know absolutely nothing about yet.
As for the guy who put it all together..Iv'e looked into him..he is quite a prolific and very successful inventor and business man who concentrates on producing things for mainly eco friendly reasons. He has been featured on the BBC and in the press and his toothbrush was not just a toothbrush....it has been taken on by none other than the British Military because it is a simple but brilliant way of stopping cross contamination between the toothbrush and the tube of paste.
Stopping your troops going down one by one when out in the field is a bit of a priority by all accounts.
His solar light benches are made of completely recycled materials and have been purchased to the tune of 10'000 pieces by the worlds biggest retailer, Wallmart as well as Tesco in the UK. The council of Majorca have recently taken delivery of a huge shipment to the island also. Somehow Im guessing that none of the aforementioned organisations are total mugs and Im also guessing that they dont listen to the voices on here.
Hey..did you know man landed on the moon yet?....and guess what, that thing that was the size of a car battery years ago that allowed you to make phone calls from anywhere is now the size of a credit card!
And what about the micro chip?...did you see the size of computers in the 60's and 70's..you know the ones that originally filled an entire room!...well now the components are so small you almost need a microscope to assemble them.
If forums were around way back when...one thing is for sure...you lot would have been on there shaking your heads and screaming "poppy cock" to any mention of the idea!
Stopping your troops going down one by one when out in the field is a bit of a priority by all accounts.
His solar light benches are made of completely recycled materials and have been purchased to the tune of 10'000 pieces by the worlds biggest retailer, Wallmart as well as Tesco in the UK. The council of Majorca have recently taken delivery of a huge shipment to the island also. Somehow Im guessing that none of the aforementioned organisations are total mugs and Im also guessing that they dont listen to the voices on here.
Hey..did you know man landed on the moon yet?....and guess what, that thing that was the size of a car battery years ago that allowed you to make phone calls from anywhere is now the size of a credit card!
And what about the micro chip?...did you see the size of computers in the 60's and 70's..you know the ones that originally filled an entire room!...well now the components are so small you almost need a microscope to assemble them.
If forums were around way back when...one thing is for sure...you lot would have been on there shaking your heads and screaming "poppy cock" to any mention of the idea!
Still, you'll be pleased to know however that I hold two physical science degrees and was personally involved in the development of at least two of the things you mention in the above paragraphs!
Not bad for a small-minded woman, eh?
If you want to provide me with the science and the mathematics behind the system, I'll take a look at it. I like equations.
PS - how is Javea at this time of the year
#71
Banned
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 699
Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real
Its mainly found in the Automotive industry and domestically its used in household fridges/freezers.
Commercial systems use more effective, but more costly Refrigerants.
R134a refrigerant has a poor record and is also being assesed by the EU, as its a contributor to Green House gas.It is now not used in the USA.
Its likely to be phased out soon, in the UK new regs are out with regards its safe handling.
Read the new EU wide F Reulations here,
http://www.fluorocarbons.org/documen...Regulation.pdf
And how bad R134a is here,
http://ecomodder.com/blog/eu-will-ba...coolant-by-20/
All new household appliance refrigeration uses R600 Refrigerant.
R134a was intended to replace the phased out R12 Refrigerant, R134a was found to be just as harmfull to the planet and is expensive compared to other gases outputs.
I wouldn`t purchase any item with R134a as with the old R12, many people had to scrap there units once a fault occured.
Last edited by chulo; Oct 20th 2009 at 10:06 am.
#72
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 474
Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real
Just because the U.S didn't sign the Kyoto Protocol doesn't mean it is not being used..
http://www.neutronicsinc.com/news/re...ch06/Gary.html
//BACK TO TOPIC//
DSB.
#73
Banned
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 11
Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real
No. And if I did I'd, er, move seats?
No
No. Maybe they're not monitoring the RH?
Yes. I never know why they do that, they're easy enough to hide.
Only if you don't insulate your home!
No, actually it is. The Calfri system is only 100% efficient when it comes to heating, but that's the thermal efficiency in converting electrical energy to heat the water. The problem comes in the transfer of that thermal energy around the house. No wet heating system is 100% efficient because some heat will be lost from the pipework and some of that won't be heating your home. Contrast with air conditioning which is 300-500% efficient on the same measure (electricity in, thermal energy out on the hot side of the heat pump).
I'm only going on the information provided on the Calfri website. Maybe that's not correct?
As I say, thermal efficiency on the Calfri website is a fraction of the thermal efficiency of a heat-pump based heating system. Nor does it attract grants from the Spanish Government as other systems do. All of these things need to be bourne in mind I guess.
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with anything?
Still, you'll be pleased to know however that I hold two physical science degrees and was personally involved in the development of at least two of the things you mention in the above paragraphs!
Not bad for a small-minded woman, eh?
If you want to provide me with the science and the mathematics behind the system, I'll take a look at it. I like equations.
PS - how is Javea at this time of the year
No
No. Maybe they're not monitoring the RH?
Yes. I never know why they do that, they're easy enough to hide.
Only if you don't insulate your home!
No, actually it is. The Calfri system is only 100% efficient when it comes to heating, but that's the thermal efficiency in converting electrical energy to heat the water. The problem comes in the transfer of that thermal energy around the house. No wet heating system is 100% efficient because some heat will be lost from the pipework and some of that won't be heating your home. Contrast with air conditioning which is 300-500% efficient on the same measure (electricity in, thermal energy out on the hot side of the heat pump).
I'm only going on the information provided on the Calfri website. Maybe that's not correct?
As I say, thermal efficiency on the Calfri website is a fraction of the thermal efficiency of a heat-pump based heating system. Nor does it attract grants from the Spanish Government as other systems do. All of these things need to be bourne in mind I guess.
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with anything?
Still, you'll be pleased to know however that I hold two physical science degrees and was personally involved in the development of at least two of the things you mention in the above paragraphs!
Not bad for a small-minded woman, eh?
If you want to provide me with the science and the mathematics behind the system, I'll take a look at it. I like equations.
PS - how is Javea at this time of the year
Wasn't it you that said in an earlier post "Have lived in many Spanish homes old and new. None had insulation!"
As for moving seats...not always possible in a busy restaraunt...you probably eat in Macdonalds though so no problem there eh.
If the tin boxes were easy enough to hide they would since its one of the customers biggest objections...your speaking like a true academic...ie;not in the real world.
woopeedoo...you have a couple of letters after your name..I wont write what I think they are...clearly you like shoving them down peoples throats..who else but an egotistical boring big head would write all those ridiculous equations on here for everyone to see and thoroughly yawn about.
With all those wonderful qualifications..I would have thought you should know better than get involved in tittle tattle
So yes actually...very small minded indeed!
As for "how is Javea"???...er..Im sure its lovely at this time of year..personally I prefer the weather here on the costa de la Luz
How is the weather with you up there?...down here on planet earth its really quite pleasent
#74
Banned
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 699
Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real
It is being used in the U.S. Nearly every car in the World is running R134a.
Just because the U.S didn't sign the Kyoto Protocol doesn't mean it is not being used..
http://www.neutronicsinc.com/news/re...ch06/Gary.html
//BACK TO TOPIC//
DSB.
Just because the U.S didn't sign the Kyoto Protocol doesn't mean it is not being used..
http://www.neutronicsinc.com/news/re...ch06/Gary.html
//BACK TO TOPIC//
DSB.
This one is more updated than your 2006 article, at the bottom you can read the signed proposal dated the 13th October 2009 accepting the EPA's proposal that says HFO-1234yf is an acceptable substitute.
Full article here,
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/index.html
http://www.aa1car.com/library/newac2k.htm
Still makes R134a rubbish.
Especially in cheap over priced Eastern European systems.
Last edited by chulo; Oct 20th 2009 at 11:05 am.
#75
Banned
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 11
Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real
And the fact that the mother of all cheap things is the Far East..you know where just about everything in the UK is manufactured.
I hardly think R134a is rubbish...bit of a simple statement that one
When something better comes along everyone will make the transition...yes even the eastern europeans
Mountains and mole hills here me thinks