lutonlad

Almost euro-sceptic at one stage.

EllisG

Sure... (now you've done it....unleashing the thoughts of a loon like me on the forum)

As david mentions, the big winner from the EU is Germany

They have their factories spread around the continent with a never ending flow of cheap labour.

If you pay close attention to Martin Bormann's work towards the end of war particularly the flight of capital and his various accomplices in the business world you would see that this very same capital flowed back into West Germany and the old faces started to reappear on the scene. The allies had no will or inclination to properly investigate the connection between these industrialists, businessmen and bankers and the Nazi party as they were more focussed on their obsession with the "threat" of communism these very same people and their beneficiaries (I’d say a lot of the original people who put this dream in motion are dead now) form the real powerhouse and driving force behind the EU.

This is not really a political issue as while they were going to war Nazis realised that politicians and nations are no longer the decision makers in the world, the businesses are which is why they spent the entire time infiltrating business throughout occupied lands and more importantly through so called neutral countries such as Sweden, Switzerland, Argentina, Turkey to name but a few. They used these companies to squirrel away German capital and things like industrial process patents..basically securing the spoils of war and keeping it safely out of allied hands when they knew by 1944 that losing the war was inevitable

Please don't imagine when I am talking about nazis I am referring to some political ideologists or stormtrooping skin heads, these people have evolved since then they even work with and contribute to various people they may have persecuted in the 1940s, they are achieving the same dream they had back then a Greater Germany in control of it’s empire

Aside from my fundamental dislike of the people behind the organisation, I also do not believe the EU benefits it's poorer member countries. My wife is Romanian so I obviously have no problem with immigration but immigration has a side no one ever discusses. How can it be better for Romania when all their graduates and decent workers head off to other parts of Europe to seek their fortune. You may have recently seen protests in Romania about the corruption within the ruling party, well they got into power as many of their election promises were aimed at pensioners. What is the future for these countries as they cannot possibiltysupport themselves when their workforce and their professionals are living in other parts of Europe ?.

Once the weaker members currently threatening to fail do so I believe federalisation will be the "White knight “ they send to save the continent. A single country spreading from Morocco to Russia underpinned by German investment.


I would like to ensure federalisation never happens and firmly believe that if it does it will lead to the loss of the diverse culture that still exists across Europe, I also fear for the future generations once they have achieved their goals

That briefly outline gives you a good idea of where some of my problem with the EU begin. they probably sound like wild accusations without the fact to back them up. this is by no means where my problems with them ends but I think this would be far too in depth to deal with in a single forum post.



So that’s my EU thoughts…now to the Brexit outcome. I can’t see it being so bad for the UK, don’t bother listening to the politicians prior to negotiations, listen to the industrialists like Siemens etc they know where their customers are and which side of the channel benefits more from the single market. They are the ones who will be directing the politiciians to get them the best outcome. It’s not been about countries since the mid 19th century…just businesses and customers.


I am not asking you to believe me or share my vision of the future but I do believe the EU is more bad than good for most of it’s members. While I can acept that I may possibly be mistaken I cannot accept that it is irrefutable as amideislas suggests.

iano

Well, I did ask

Your belief that the heirs to the wartime Nazi regime are driving the EU was more than enough for me to contemplate, thank you.

Anyway, we've taken this Gib thread far enough off topic already....<grabs coat and slips away quietly into the night>