Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Hi, I keep reading that the form S1 will last for 'up to 2.5 years'. What are the rules on this? I know all NI contributions have to be up to date but what else is required to get the full 2.5 years for healthcare? :confused:

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

It's to do with the amount of NI contributions made previously & how recently



from http://ukinspain.fco.gov.uk/en/help-...lthcare/#early

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Exactly - its on a pro rata system. UK DWP will give you a quote and details.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Hi, Thanks for your replies. I have paid full NI for all my working life, never missed a beat. I'm now 62 so paid for 47 years. It says 'will normally last for 2.5 years' I want to retire as early to Spain as possible. My query was to ask generally if anyone knew what was needed to make it a certainty to last the full term.
Regards, Steve

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

probably that's what's needed - if it isn't I'd be surprised if there's anything you can do about it

just the the DWP a call and ask them - they will be able to tell you what your entitlement will be

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

I also paid NI all my life but as I stopped work six months before we came to SPAIN I got less than 2 years, hence the "up to" figure, it doesnt last beyond that, If you are coming over without a pension you will have to have private medical insurance after it has run out until you get your pension

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Thanks everybody for your replies. I'll ring DWP and hopefully if I work up until I can move out there I can possibly get there a few months earlier than first thought! Can't Wait!!
Regards to all
Steve

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Or you can apply for "sin recurso"

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

yes, after you've been here until it runs out - not when you just arrive though....


actually that has made me wonder - under the new rules you have to have income & healthcare provision in order to register - if/when the S1 expires would you in fact be allowed to apply for healthcare 'sin recursos'?

those who have been here since before the new rules could argue that they could, because there was no such requirement for healthcare provision when they registered - but new registrations would have known that there was the requirement, so I guess it could be argued that they should have no call on the public purse when it expires............

am I making any sense?

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Thanks all, By the time I've sold up etc. I will be coming up to about 63 yrs so if I can get 2 yrs or so on the S1 then that will take me up to retirement age so no need for any private cover. I will need to re-apply for a new S1 to cover retirement.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

I would have thought so. What if you got a job (after S1) and then, through no fault of your own, lost it ,.....

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Will your retirement age still be 65 at that time, with the changes that mean a later age coming in.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Hi, Yes, I keep checking on the government retirement age calculator and for my birth date I still retire at 65. On the other hand my Wife's retirement age has shot up from 60 to 66 in a matter of 18 months!!

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

If you are married/partners and your partner is receiving state pension am I not right in thinking you can be their dependent?

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Well I don't know if it works for "partners", but certainly for a married couple if one is in receipt of a state pension then the other becomes their dependent, they therefore can access free health care here in Spain.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

only if it is male/male or female/female partnerships
if it is a male/female partnership then it doesn't count as it isn't a legal commitment which can only come about through Marriage.

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Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

they can register as pareja de hecho though - a lot of couples I know have done that & then the partner benefits

in my region you have to be able to prove that you've been together a year, but that varies a bit from region to region apparently

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

I know that in Spain you both get the benefits but do the DWP recognise pareja de hecho as they are the ones that issue the S1 forms?

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

good question Fred, as most people will be coming here from UK and not have the "benefits" of having worked and paid in Spain.

ISTR this came up a little while ago in a very contentious thread in PDT, where the blunt answer was "if you are hetrosexual then you HAVE to get married", which for some people is not the answer

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

How long you get out of an S1 depends principally on when you apply for it. S1's also run for fixed periods based on a year beginning in December and ending in January.

Entitlement to an S1 at all is determined by your NI record over the previous 2 full UK tax years, if it is sufficient then you will be entitled to an S1 which runs from the time you apply for it to the January of the next but one year. In other words if you applied in January 2013 it would run until January 2015. If you applied in say May 2013 though it would still expire in January 2015 and so on. The minimum you can possibly get then if you have timed it badly is one year.

The extra 1/2 year may be granted depending on your NI contributions in the tax year in which you apply, if you have paid the minimum, which I think is 23 weeks but don't quote me, you can have 6 months tagged on but only to the start because to get that you would have to be applying 23 weeks or so into the current tax year, so in about July say, and it would run until January 2016. Any later than that and the expired portion of 2013 will be deducted from the 2 years meaning that it would expire in January 2015 as expected.

Timing then is crucial and if you want to take advantage of the 2.5 year possibility then best to talk to DWP and get the exact details, please don't rely on this post !!!!

An important point to note is that the S1 clock starts ticking when you cease paying NI not just from when you actually apply for it.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

That is a brilliant informative post thank you.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Many thanks Im_and_Er. I may have to rethink my early retirement dates! It will take some figuring out for dates as it seems complicated. I just assumed if I retired 2 years early I would get the 2 years cover.
Thanks for the info
Regards Steve

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Tebo, you also need to nail every point very precisely with Newcastle. I timed my retirement with their help for after the 6th January of this year. They told me I would be entitled to 2 years and two months cover from the date of my retirement which was January 31st. I too had paid Nat Ins for 40 plus years.
When i rang them to get the annual S1 extension, they informed me that as I was now retired, it was no longer issued by HMRC but DWP, who have different rules. My health cover would expire December 31st this year, and they may, barring any changes to the rules, extend then to the end December 2014. They will not extend beyond that.
Try to get everything in writing - very difficult, as they take months to answer letters, if they answer at all. I do not think anyone there has a clue what they are doing - perhaps because every one you speak to works for a different body with different rules. -DWP, HMRC, Nat Health, Overseas Healthcare - and probably the tea lady too.
For my first year in Spain, they refused to issue cover at all - even though I was paying National Insurance in the UK. When they realised they were wrong, they were very apologetic, but I was still out of pocket for a years private health cover for us both in the meantime. They are an absolute shower.
Good luck

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

some wise words there.
when my "pre-retirement" S1 came through (without any problems) and it had expired a couple of months before my retirement date I phoned DWP - whose letter accompanied it to discuss the extension cover.
The guy I spoke to told me he had never issued me with one - and he should know, as he was the only person who did S1's.
So waited a week and phoned up again and spoke to a nice lady who sent me the extension.
I eventually received the permanant S1 a couple of weeks after getting my pension letter, but luckily have not had any dealings with that rude civil servant again.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

So, having read Im_and_Er's excellent explanation about the P1 at post 20 several times, can I assume that if I apply for the S1 at end of October 2014 (Which will be 2 years before official retirement date of 26 October 2016) then it will run out Jan 2016? which will be 10 months to early!! So, trying to work it out, what is the best month to apply so it will last until October 2016? So sorry if I sound a bit thick on this one
Regards

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

you could assume that but mine expired end of Sept 4 weeks before my birthday

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Correct.

If you apply in October 2014 that S1 year will expire in January 2015 and then you will have the 2nd year taking you to January 2016.

To keep S1 cover until you receive your state pension in October 2016 then you would have to delay applying until December 2015 and thus get the full 2 years out of it..

I really don't understand why UK operate this fixed year system, it does seem unnecessary and unfair. It might make some sense if it tallied with the UK tax year but it doesn't.

Good point by Bigglesworth by the way, HMRC deal with S1's for those living abroad but still working in UK and paying NI, for them there there is a so called 'workers S1' which runs for 12 months at a time and is renewable indefinitely on it's anniversary. It's only after that that DWP take over and issue what is correctly termed a residual S1.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Is this what you meant.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Yes, apologies.

If you bear in mind that S1's always expire in January and you need or want cover up to a particular point in time then you can work it back from that.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Thanks very much everybody. You've cleared up a lot of confusing points between you all, especially Im_and_Er. Looks like retiring Dec 2014 for me then :-) Just a couple of months extra at work than expected! but hay ho that's life.
Regards for now.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

You can still retire in October but if you are not moving to France immediately the next day then don't apply for your S1 until you need to.

I know I said the clock starts ticking when you stop paying NI and it's correct but I made the point because I have heard stories of people who didn't appreciate that and thought that they were entitled to an 2 year S1 at any time so packed in work then took a year or sometimes more to make their move only to find that their entitlement was not what they had banked on, a potentially catastrophic error !

Short delays won't necessarily hurt and can be used to your advantage. In your case you can still retire in October 2014 just don't apply for your S1 until you actually need it, and certainly not before the end of the current S1 year in January 2015, that will then get you cover to January 2017.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Thank, Food for thought! At least I've got all the information at hand now to make the correct decisions. It will be Spain, not France that is favourite.
Regards.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Tebo I wis you the very best of British. I have just finished yet another phone call with Newcastle, this one denying the existence of a letter I had sent to them, the contents of which they had just quoted to me.
The information they had given to me as to termination of S1 or E106 was wrong. There is nothing they can do. My health cover will cease some three months earlier than HMRC had said. All I can do is appeal to the International Caseworkers Tribunal.
I would strongly urge you on every single conversation to insist on the correspondents full name AND Department. depending on the options you pick the telephone numbers can put you through to any one of up to 5 departments, and they will ALL deny any knowledge or responsibility for anything you have been told.
They are undoubtedly the most disfunctional set of jobsworths in the country

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Sorry tebo, I was forgetting which forum I was in !

Bigglesworth, how long did you expect your E106/S1 to last for, as stated, and workers S1's excepted, they always expire in January.

Are they telling you something different and do you actually mean 'termination' or just expire, the two are not necessarily the same thing although I can't think of any circumstance in which an S1 would be 'terminated' before it's due date.

Also I have not heard of anybody actually being told by UK that their S1 was about to expire neither is it something I would expect them to be doing.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

im and Er

HMRC S1s (or E106) expire end Feb usually, but sometimes as late as end March as they are (so HMRC inform me) timed with the tax year.

DWP Nat Insurance S1s (or E106) are timed with the calendar year to coincide with the benefit year (I have no idea if that is true).

It is precisely their use of "termination" date that worries me - although they do say they expect to renew for that second calendar year. The use of calendar years means that the first year is normally less than a full year. Which makes even nonsense of the automatic entitlement.

They also say that they cannot "guarantee" that a second year will be granted as it depends on the contribution rates decided annually by HMG. Which they cannot assess in advance, and could (in theory) be abolished completely.

You are very plainly very clued up on this. I learnt today that there are two (or more) different Ehics. EHIC, EHIC A and EHIC E. Covering whether one is resident abroad (EU) working, resident in the UK working, or not working, and resident abroad (EU) not working.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

AFAIK HMRC are only responsible for the issue of S1's to those still paying UK NI, the so called 'workers S1', and having been the recipient of one of those for several years I can say with some authority that they are issued at any time of the year on demand and based on the actual date you say you are leaving the UK and becoming non resident and expire on their anniversary one year later so they have no fixed relationship to the tax year.

I suppose it may be possible that if you quit work, and therefore NI contributions, during the course of the validity of a workers S1 HMRC might only grant a partial extension based on how much you NI you had actually paid in the part of the current tax year covered by it but in that situation when it expired naturally you would simply switch to DWP for your residual S1 anyway so any expiry or termination dates by HMRC would be meaningless.

The benefit year is the calendar year so the DWP S1 being in accordance with that is correct.

You still haven't said where, or in what context, the term 'termination' is being used. Unless they made a mistake when issuing it or the applicant gave false information in order to obtain it I cannot see how an S1 can be prematurely terminated as the document is itself evidence of entitlement to it !

I'd appreciate a link to that EHIC information if you have one please.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

but if you are resident in Spain and contributing (presumably directly or indirectly to Spain's medical system) then you have to get a Spanish EHIC and return your UK card.
this will give you access to UK medical on your visits home, NHS facilities are not supposed to give you any medical assistance with the UK EHIC.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

No that is not correct. It was in the past but new EU rules meant that it all changed in May 2010

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthc...gulations.aspx

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Yes that is correct!

As pensioners here or as dependants, the EHIC card now has to be obtained from your country of birth, it is no longer issued here in Spain unless you are working here and paying into the system.

Re: Form S1 - How long does it last?
 

Domino. I moved to France from Spain a couple of years back, at which time the rules were the same in both countries. If they have now changed in Spain, I have not heard, but they have not for France.
If you live in France, but do not work in Spain, and you return to the UK, work in the UK and pay NI and tax in UK, then the UK issues your S1 and your EHIC for use in the UK and other European countries. That is what i have been told many times by Newcastle.
The issue now is, having retired, is the card still issued by the UK EHIC team. A very definite lady insisted to me yesterday that it was and is so. (A month ago, the chap I spoke to at DWP said it had been cancelled, which was one of the reasons I have been writing and calling DWP and Overseas Health care. The other reason was the changed duration of the S1.)