Re: The exodus continues
 

The problem is that there is little supporting data for the title to this thread.

If true that the numbers of Brits leaving the UK is constant or reducing then a 100,000 returning Brits does place pressure on the UKs already stretched resources. That is simple statistical logic it has nothing to do with immigration.
If anyones argument is based on one set of government figures then their argument looses any validity if they do not accept all figures from the same source even they contradict their original premise.
That again is simple logic.
When emotion takes over from facts then there is little opportunity for a reasoned debate.
I believe that there is no exodus just as the UK is not overrun , the available facts just do not support either statement.

Re: The exodus continues
 

But the OP had nothing to do with Uk immigration, so why was it raised?
Another thread derailed for a political agenda.

Re: The exodus continues
 

Precisely.:goodpost:

It might help if HBG were to come back and put some flesh on the bones of his OP. It's an interesting topic but no-one seems sure that it's really happening.

Re: The exodus continues
 

I’m trying my best, Jim, but these official Spanish figures are not as clear as they might be. They are based on the initial registration numbers for British expats who have come to Spain, then linked to central numbers registered on the Spain wide padrons, the numbers who have deregistered, a misleadingly small figure because the process has been made so awkward, and the current numbers on the padron. The most recognisable numbers were printed in the Costa Blanca News, the most reliable (paid for) newspaper genuinely committed to the British expat community in Spain.

There are exact numbers for each part of the largest British expat communities in Spain. From memory, the British expat population to the south of Alicante has almost halved over the past two years.

I live in this area and it is astonishing. A small(ish) number have given up with the pardon and are now ‘hiding in plain sight’, but the great majority have actually gone home.

I can’t make sense of it. Spain has changed, but not that much. The fear of taxes is mostly that, a fear. There are still cars with yellow number plates that have been here for years, and the climate is as good as it has always been.

I read some time ago that 70% of all British expats go home eventually. Perhaps hat explains it best of all.. . .

.

Re: The exodus continues
 

Whatever the reasons for leaving the UK in the first place, many of us, as we get older, hanker after our roots. When good health begins to fail, everything becomes hard work. Everyday administration of life in general appears easier amidst familiar surroundings, and in your original language. I also wouldn't be surprised if availability of benefits for seniors in UK plays a part for many.
I've been an expat for over 50 years (not in Spain), so have no plans to move now; but I know some folks who will, for the above reasons.
bye bye dicette l'inglese

Re: The exodus continues
 

Much of what you say is true. I've seen it happening for more than twenty years now, even many pensioners I knew who said they were very content and here for the duration, suddenly decided that back to their roots in Blighty was what they really wanted after all.
However I don't think that in any way accounts for the recent dramatic drop in numbers. IMHO more likely it's down to the change in attitude by Rajoy and co to tighten up on tax regulations most especially those relating to assets and income from outside Spain and chase every expat euro/pound they can get their grubby mitts on to help drag themselves out of the mire.
On the face of it, it seems to me they are shooting themselves in the foot big-time, we shall no doubt see.
To go back to the previous point, on what basis do they calculate the number of expats who have opted for non-res status or left for good is it simply down to deregistering from the Padron ?

Re: The exodus continues
 

So many of our neighbours have packed up and gone home, I do not know if they bothered to remove themselves from the padron, it seems a pointless activity IMHO. It must be impossible to give an accurate figure but I shall be one of them, later this year and leave behind the nightmare that Spain became for us. I guess we will return to the UK with what we can carry and try to start again but God knows where and how at our age.

Re: The exodus continues
 

I agree with the last two posters who also have a vast knowledge of the Spanish ‘system’. Here is a recent example of how it shoots itself in the foot.

A company of English estate agents operating in Spain for more than ten years recently witnessed a fall out between the senior partner and one of his junior ones. If the excessive use of ‘black’ money means that the operation is a crooked one, then those criteria apply in full.

The junior partner should have paid clients and everyone else in full from the black money but pocketed it instead, to the tune of 500K. The senior partner reported the facts to the Spanish authorities who immediate attended
the premises and forced it to close down there and then.

By pure chance I actually witnessed the two grim-faced Spanish officials as they insisted on the shutters coming down. The senior partner waited until dark and removed all his computers and other records. He seemed relieved and returned to the UK the following day, never to return. The junior and other partners also disappeared.

The Spanish officials appeared in force the next day and looked for anyone they could contact, and then returned the day after that with longer and longer faces.

Unfortunately hundreds of innocent expats will lose large sums of money, as will the Spanish authorities, especially Hacienda, but shooting themselves in the foot seems to be a Spanish national pastime.

Re: The exodus continues
 

Spanish News in English........... On Facebook.
28 December 2014 at 20:43 ·

IMMIGRATION IN SPAIN

According to data from July 2014,
there are 4 538 503 immigrants in Spain.
The amount has decreased 10,53% compared to 2013,
when the number of immigrants was 5 072 680.
These numbers do not include citizens with doble nationality.

Here are some of the biggest immigration groups in Spain:
Romanians - 721 445,
Moroccans - 697 074.
Ecuadorians - 187 025,
Colombians - 154.320,
Bolivians - 154 320,
Peruvians - 71 755.

* Source: El Pais

Re: The exodus continues
 

Don't get caught out by new Spain tax laws - Telegraph

New "Spanish Inquisition"

"And in a move that’s led to mutterings of a new Spanish Inquisition, the Spanish authorities have started automatically taking tax debts from people’s bank accounts."

I have it on good authority that this is already happening !

Re: The exodus continues
 

I dont think that's anything new.

Businesses take debits from bank accounts without authorisation, the courts can order any debts to be extracted from individual bank accounts, and I know the German finanzamt (tax authority) has been taking money directly from taxpayer accounts since forever.

Re: The exodus continues
 

The same in the UK.courts can take money out of salaries. Maybe all Spain is doing is catching up.

Re: The exodus continues
 

I don't think there's anything wrong with extracting >real< debts from people's bank accounts. If you owe it, you owe it. But it should be >required< to prove the debt and subsequent failure to collect or agreement to terms of compromise, as a transparent, official process.

What pisses me off is when they take money long before it's been officially established that there's any justification for it. Telefonica and Endesa are champions at this. I don't know how many times I've had to pull back money from Endesa. I had to do it once with Telefonica - from my husband's account, which they had absolutely no authorisation to debit from. I finally blocked both of them from debiting any of our accounts, and that's been the best thing I ever did (with respect to those two).

And I've had thousands extracted from my account by the German finanzamt without any notice or justification (as later proven) only because they'd been monitoring my bank account and thought 'maybe' there might be some impropriety. In all fairness, after about 4 months of proving otherwise, we got the money back, but I just can't agree with their methods.

The upside is that with most banks, you can always take it back immediately if it's a >business< that "mistakenly" takes it without justification, but I know from experience in Germany that you can't take it back if it's the government that "mistakenly" takes it. I reckon same is true for most countries.

But I'd have to believe it's a lovely option to have at your disposal. Whenever you run out of money, just make a few innocent "mistakes" and extract a few million from bank accounts - interest-free with impunity.