Eurozone failure?
Sep 19th 2011 | 7:42 pm
#46
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: Eurozone failure?
Not necessarily true. I am surprised with the number of American accents I hear around here and many dont seem to be tourists either.
My OH heard 2 American woman speaking on the train to Malaga, they were in their late 20s. One was saying they earn 20k euros a year here. And that in the States they would have to earn over $100k per year to have the same quality of life. I believe her.
My OH heard 2 American woman speaking on the train to Malaga, they were in their late 20s. One was saying they earn 20k euros a year here. And that in the States they would have to earn over $100k per year to have the same quality of life. I believe her.
Sep 19th 2011 | 7:43 pm
#47
Banned
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
Re: Eurozone failure?
I agree with JLFS.
Many of us may have had hard times and been perhaps classed as poor but I suspect that relatively few of us have known real poverty.
I have worked with people in poverty but that does not qualify me to know how it feels to be starving, homeless and desperate, it merely provides me with an insight.
Rosemary
Many of us may have had hard times and been perhaps classed as poor but I suspect that relatively few of us have known real poverty.
I have worked with people in poverty but that does not qualify me to know how it feels to be starving, homeless and desperate, it merely provides me with an insight.
Rosemary
I also have an "insight" as you do. Members of my own and OH family live in terrible conditions.
The worst part of being poor is not the hunger or cold, it is the loss of dignity, the being looked down on, even by their own children.
Quite often the poor can be spotted even if they are clean and quite well turned out, it is in their demeanor.
I would do anything and go anywhere to stop poverty eating my pride and and dignity away.
Last edited by JLFS; Sep 19th 2011 at 7:46 pm.
Sep 19th 2011 | 8:17 pm
#48
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,367
Re: Eurozone failure?
I can remember going to to a very old, traditional grammar school, where all the teachers wore gowns and mortar boards, and the school had a very strict uniform code. My brother and I had special permission to wear a sports jacket as we could not afford the uniform, and we were the only two amongst many hundreds. So we were reasonably turned out, but we stuck out like sore thumbs and were the subject of much abuse from the other richer pupils. Not a nice feeling. Getting caned for fighting with vindictive rich kids was all part of the learning process!
Sep 19th 2011 | 9:06 pm
#49
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,426
From: Velez-Malaga
Re: Eurozone failure?
Stevie,Typical rubbish from an agent. Historically American homes have always been better value, not to mention better quality in the US. You could/can get a 3/3 house with fab kitchen and pool (heated) for the price of a 2/2 apartment on the CDS...and it will not only have lemon trees but ruby red grapefruit and Florida oranges. Then there is the poor exchange rate right now. You really ought to check what you can get for $300...about 220,000. Plus the fact that America ns don't do buying in foreign countries.!
Sep 19th 2011 | 9:30 pm
#50
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,824
From: Living in a good place
Re: Eurozone failure?
Yes we had some Americans bought in our street. Reason was his wife was from Madrid and they came to europe for 2 months in summer. Some Americans live on the coast as there is an American club. But to suggest they would make a difference to a property market in crisis is clutching at straws. First it was the Russians were coming, some did, not enough to make a dent. Latest I heard they were looking towards the Chinese to buy them all
The majority of Americans never leave the US, nor do they want to. The bigget market there is the cruises. A few come to marbella as there is a marriot time-share.
The majority of Americans never leave the US, nor do they want to. The bigget market there is the cruises. A few come to marbella as there is a marriot time-share.
Sep 20th 2011 | 4:53 am
#51
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,646
From: Near Alora....but not too near. :)
Re: Eurozone failure?
Being poor in Spain is no picnic, I know people who are so close to the edge because their young daughter needs about 300euros of dental work!!!!!!!!
I think using the term "I would rather be poor in Spain" devalues the plight of the people who really are totaly desperate due to real and not, imagined poverty.
Some may have experienced relative poverty, but not absolute poverty, I havent, and I dont think anyone on this forum has.
The poverty of a child saying "daddy I am hungry", knowing that there is nothing more to eat.
And for thoses who claim to have been poor, well obvioulsy not poor now, wheras in most cases the "real poor" go from being a poor infant to a poor child to a poor adult and dying poor.
I would not expect an expat to understand the real meaning of being poor, not an expat from the UK Germany etc, but look at the difference to other immigrants from Morocco and E Europeans SAMS ETC.......they understand.
It sort of galls people to hear that phrase because a few decades ago Spanish, Italian and Portugese went to the UK because they really were poor in Spain, etc.
Of course British have a slightly distorted view of "poverty", the vast majority of them left the UK for a "better quality of life or the cafe culture, the sun. etc
Some came for the relaxed lifestlye, which is a condradiction in terms when talking about living in poverty because nothing is more stressfull that not being able to feed,house and clothe yourself and your family.
So stressfull in fact, that thousands went to the UK and sent money home to support the whole family including children left behind.
In fact a lot of south Americans are doing the same now and are trying to meet the legal requirements to be able to bring their minor children here, having to show they can support them.
Not quite the same as the British idea of poor in Spain, which means having MDD instead of a la carte, and a few less beers on the terrace until the pension or whatever hits the bank.
So posters who say they would rather be poor, should actually write that they would rather have less in Spain, that would save them from getting "well deserved" flak for what is quite franly a rather insulting phrase to the people who are actually living hand to mouth, ie POOR.
I think using the term "I would rather be poor in Spain" devalues the plight of the people who really are totaly desperate due to real and not, imagined poverty.
Some may have experienced relative poverty, but not absolute poverty, I havent, and I dont think anyone on this forum has.
The poverty of a child saying "daddy I am hungry", knowing that there is nothing more to eat.
And for thoses who claim to have been poor, well obvioulsy not poor now, wheras in most cases the "real poor" go from being a poor infant to a poor child to a poor adult and dying poor.
I would not expect an expat to understand the real meaning of being poor, not an expat from the UK Germany etc, but look at the difference to other immigrants from Morocco and E Europeans SAMS ETC.......they understand.
It sort of galls people to hear that phrase because a few decades ago Spanish, Italian and Portugese went to the UK because they really were poor in Spain, etc.
Of course British have a slightly distorted view of "poverty", the vast majority of them left the UK for a "better quality of life or the cafe culture, the sun. etc
Some came for the relaxed lifestlye, which is a condradiction in terms when talking about living in poverty because nothing is more stressfull that not being able to feed,house and clothe yourself and your family.
So stressfull in fact, that thousands went to the UK and sent money home to support the whole family including children left behind.
In fact a lot of south Americans are doing the same now and are trying to meet the legal requirements to be able to bring their minor children here, having to show they can support them.
Not quite the same as the British idea of poor in Spain, which means having MDD instead of a la carte, and a few less beers on the terrace until the pension or whatever hits the bank.
So posters who say they would rather be poor, should actually write that they would rather have less in Spain, that would save them from getting "well deserved" flak for what is quite franly a rather insulting phrase to the people who are actually living hand to mouth, ie POOR.
Too many of you on here presume to know about other people’s lives when in fact you know nothing!
Not that it's anything to do with any of you but....yes I was poor, my mother was divorced in a time when it was a shameful thing to be, I was looked down on as much as she was, even by the teachers in school, I was considered some kind of social outcast for something that was not of my doing, as was the only other girl there who was in the same situation.
Yes I DO know what it's like to live in a cold damp house that has no electricity and just one cold water tap, and the WC was a long drop toilet outside in the yard....mine is not a memory of a distant relative, I actually lived it!
I also know the feeling of hunger and there being no food in the house, quite often back then there would be a little bread and some sugar, so it was a 'sugar butty' for tea and often nothing at all for my mother.
The problems I have now with my feet were caused by having to wear shoes that were far too small, there was no money for shoes and cloths, I got those once a year from my aunt in London who we thought was rich because she could afford them.
It was all good grounding for me though, as soon as I started to earn I started to save as much as I could, I helped my mother improve her life and then I started to improve my own.
So don't you dare say to me from your much better background that I don't know what poor is.....I know it a lot better than some of you damned lot!
You know who you are!
Sep 20th 2011 | 5:08 am
#52
Banned
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
Re: Eurozone failure?
Well so far I've survived my local government pension being reduced for life by 23% simply because I dared to retire at sixty instead of sixty five.
We have also seen our joint pensions fall by a large amount due to the falling exchange rate, we've also seen the interest on our savings and investments all but disappear...but we are still doing OK.
If push comes to shove and things go really down the pan for us... we would still rather be here in Spain poor than rich in the UK.I know I'm in for more flak for saying that, but it happens to be true!
We have also seen our joint pensions fall by a large amount due to the falling exchange rate, we've also seen the interest on our savings and investments all but disappear...but we are still doing OK.
If push comes to shove and things go really down the pan for us... we would still rather be here in Spain poor than rich in the UK.I know I'm in for more flak for saying that, but it happens to be true!
And that is rather insulting to those of us who may be doing OK or even very well now, but who in the years following world war two knew poverty the likes of which at your age and being born in Spain you have never experienced and couldn't even begin to imagine!
Too many of you on here presume to know about other people’s lives when in fact you know nothing!
Not that it's anything to do with any of you but....yes I was poor, my mother was divorced in a time when it was a shameful thing to be, I was looked down on as much as she was, even by the teachers in school, I was considered some kind of social outcast for something that was not of my doing, as was the only other girl there who was in the same situation.
Yes I DO know what it's like to live in a cold damp house that has no electricity and just one cold water tap, and the WC was a long drop toilet outside in the yard....mine is not a memory of a distant relative, I actually lived it!
I also know the feeling of hunger and there being no food in the house, quite often back then there would be a little bread and some sugar, so it was a 'sugar butty' for tea and often nothing at all for my mother.
The problems I have now with my feet were caused by having to wear shoes that were far too small, there was no money for shoes and cloths, I got those once a year from my aunt in London who we thought was rich because she could afford them.
It was all good grounding for me though, as soon as I started to earn I started to save as much as I could, I helped my mother improve her life and then I started to improve my own.
So don't you dare say to me from your much better background that I don't know what poor is.....I know it a lot better than some of you damned lot!
You know who you are!
Too many of you on here presume to know about other people’s lives when in fact you know nothing!
Not that it's anything to do with any of you but....yes I was poor, my mother was divorced in a time when it was a shameful thing to be, I was looked down on as much as she was, even by the teachers in school, I was considered some kind of social outcast for something that was not of my doing, as was the only other girl there who was in the same situation.
Yes I DO know what it's like to live in a cold damp house that has no electricity and just one cold water tap, and the WC was a long drop toilet outside in the yard....mine is not a memory of a distant relative, I actually lived it!
I also know the feeling of hunger and there being no food in the house, quite often back then there would be a little bread and some sugar, so it was a 'sugar butty' for tea and often nothing at all for my mother.
The problems I have now with my feet were caused by having to wear shoes that were far too small, there was no money for shoes and cloths, I got those once a year from my aunt in London who we thought was rich because she could afford them.
It was all good grounding for me though, as soon as I started to earn I started to save as much as I could, I helped my mother improve her life and then I started to improve my own.
So don't you dare say to me from your much better background that I don't know what poor is.....I know it a lot better than some of you damned lot!
You know who you are!
Not in a million years.
Most of the poor I know who have come through it, would do anything to avoid being poor again and would not consider inflicint poverty on their loved ones.
Sep 20th 2011 | 5:17 am
#53
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,824
From: Living in a good place
Re: Eurozone failure?
Hmmm everyone falling over themselves to compete on the poverty level...where is the Violin
Real poverty is in places like the Congo, Haiti etc. and those who have not seen it could never imagine it.
Real poverty is in places like the Congo, Haiti etc. and those who have not seen it could never imagine it.
Sep 20th 2011 | 5:31 am
#54
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,646
From: Near Alora....but not too near. :)
Re: Eurozone failure?
Sep 20th 2011 | 5:43 am
#55
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 12,053
From: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Re: Eurozone failure?
not in those specific countries but thinking about Sector 6 in Cape Town which was razed to the ground after they moved everyone to upmarket Soweto. Then there's the average villager in Malaya or Thailand. What about living in a wooden crate in Hong Kong and using a baked bean tin for a cup?
Remember with (no) fondness the bodies that used to be found in monsoon ditches of Singapore or in the harbour.
Jacky, sorry but if you feel the down market areas of Malaga and Marbella are bad I think your chauffeur had better go on a client survival course with a friend of mine.
Sep 20th 2011 | 6:32 am
#58
Thread Starter
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,753
From: Alicante province
Re: Eurozone failure?
Instead of recalling the poor times of the immediate post war era, and I have every sympathy for those who lived through them, perhaps we should pay a bit of attention to what is happening right now, here in Spain and in the UK.
Today's IMF report warns of terrible dangers ahead, unemployment and poverty on a scale 'not seen since the second world war'. Those were the words of a British cabinet minister earlier today.
The poverty experienced after the biggest war in history is easily understandable, but what about this current lot? There hasn't been a war of any comparable size recently, nobody in Spain or the UK has had to go hungry, but if some of the horrible predictions from knowledgeable people come true, that's where we could be heading.
We won't have the noble choice of being poor in the sun, the poverty will be such that we will need to return to our home country to queue at a soup kitchen in the rain.
Today's IMF report warns of terrible dangers ahead, unemployment and poverty on a scale 'not seen since the second world war'. Those were the words of a British cabinet minister earlier today.
The poverty experienced after the biggest war in history is easily understandable, but what about this current lot? There hasn't been a war of any comparable size recently, nobody in Spain or the UK has had to go hungry, but if some of the horrible predictions from knowledgeable people come true, that's where we could be heading.
We won't have the noble choice of being poor in the sun, the poverty will be such that we will need to return to our home country to queue at a soup kitchen in the rain.
Sep 20th 2011 | 6:35 am
#59
Banned
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 738
From: brum
Re: Eurozone failure?
And that is rather insulting to those of us who may be doing OK or even very well now, but who in the years following world war two knew poverty the likes of which at your age and being born in Spain you have never experienced and couldn't even begin to imagine!
Too many of you on here presume to know about other people’s lives when in fact you know nothing!
Not that it's anything to do with any of you but....yes I was poor, my mother was divorced in a time when it was a shameful thing to be, I was looked down on as much as she was, even by the teachers in school, I was considered some kind of social outcast for something that was not of my doing, as was the only other girl there who was in the same situation.
Yes I DO know what it's like to live in a cold damp house that has no electricity and just one cold water tap, and the WC was a long drop toilet outside in the yard....mine is not a memory of a distant relative, I actually lived it!
I also know the feeling of hunger and there being no food in the house, quite often back then there would be a little bread and some sugar, so it was a 'sugar butty' for tea and often nothing at all for my mother.
The problems I have now with my feet were caused by having to wear shoes that were far too small, there was no money for shoes and cloths, I got those once a year from my aunt in London who we thought was rich because she could afford them.
It was all good grounding for me though, as soon as I started to earn I started to save as much as I could, I helped my mother improve her life and then I started to improve my own.
So don't you dare say to me from your much better background that I don't know what poor is.....I know it a lot better than some of you damned lot!
You know who you are!
Too many of you on here presume to know about other people’s lives when in fact you know nothing!
Not that it's anything to do with any of you but....yes I was poor, my mother was divorced in a time when it was a shameful thing to be, I was looked down on as much as she was, even by the teachers in school, I was considered some kind of social outcast for something that was not of my doing, as was the only other girl there who was in the same situation.
Yes I DO know what it's like to live in a cold damp house that has no electricity and just one cold water tap, and the WC was a long drop toilet outside in the yard....mine is not a memory of a distant relative, I actually lived it!
I also know the feeling of hunger and there being no food in the house, quite often back then there would be a little bread and some sugar, so it was a 'sugar butty' for tea and often nothing at all for my mother.
The problems I have now with my feet were caused by having to wear shoes that were far too small, there was no money for shoes and cloths, I got those once a year from my aunt in London who we thought was rich because she could afford them.
It was all good grounding for me though, as soon as I started to earn I started to save as much as I could, I helped my mother improve her life and then I started to improve my own.
So don't you dare say to me from your much better background that I don't know what poor is.....I know it a lot better than some of you damned lot!
You know who you are!
Sep 20th 2011 | 6:58 am
#60
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 12,053
From: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
