Their recent sporting successes can't have harmed either?

you know "I always miss the point" H...

I sincerely believe the Spanish\English relationship is stronger than the Christian\Muslim\Hindu "relationship" in the uk.

Millions of Muslims in the UK were born there, they are UK citizens, like you and me, and accordingly have citizen's rights.

The million UK expats in Spain are not Spanish citizens and if necessary can be deported back to the UK.

Stevie,Typical rubbish from an agent. Historically American homes have always been better value, not to mention better quality in the US. You could/can get a 3/3 house with fab kitchen and pool (heated) for the price of a 2/2 apartment on the CDS...and it will not only have lemon trees but ruby red grapefruit and Florida oranges. Then there is the poor exchange rate right now. You really ought to check what you can get for $300...about 220,000. Plus the fact that America ns don't do buying in foreign countries.!

Are you quite sure of that?
I know in the part of Lancashire where we come from we have been the foreigners for years, that's why anyone that can afford to is getting out of there.
Whole towns have been taken over by immigrants who don't wish to integrate, their aim is to take over.....and it's working as there are no go areas where even the police won't go!

Please tell me where exactly I said it would be better....

What I said was that given a choice between the two I would still chose here.

Your opinion on whether or not I know what it's like to be poor is exactly that, your opinion... you know absolutely nothing about me or my life so please don't assume.
I have in fact worked for many years helping some of the poorest people in the UK, so yes I do know exactly what it's like.

Sorry. I must have misunderstood. What did you mean? To me that is what you implied.

In respect of my comment on being poor. If I was unclear it related to being poor in Spain not the Uk and I stand by my opinion.

Racial integration is a difficult area, a Bonfire of the Vanities as the famous author, Tom Wolfe called it in his bestseller. I don't know Lancashire very well, but in London there are areas where immigrants have congregated to live among their friends and relatives. The police patrol those areas like any other, and Londoners see Asian and black policemen on a daily basis.

As for immigrants taking over in countries where they are foreigners, there can't be a better example than the British expats in Spain. They are in the majority in a whole raft of Spanish towns and are well represented on local councils, even leading some of them.

Spanish people seem quite happy with the situation and it leads back to the vexed question of race. Are they happy with us because we don't look that different? An Asian in Burnley looks different to a white man, is that the real problem?

When Barack Obama was voted in as President of the biggest democracy in the world, I rejoiced. We need more racial integration, not less.

Which was my point Jacky...

Although tbh I think the Spanish are looking more at Chinese tourists and visitors. Potentially a vast market.

Being poor in Spain is no picnic, I know people who are so close to the edge because their young daughter needs about 300euros of dental work!!!!!!!!
I think using the term "I would rather be poor in Spain" devalues the plight of the people who really are totaly desperate due to real and not, imagined poverty.

Some may have experienced relative poverty, but not absolute poverty, I havent, and I dont think anyone on this forum has.

The poverty of a child saying "daddy I am hungry", knowing that there is nothing more to eat.

And for thoses who claim to have been poor, well obvioulsy not poor now, wheras in most cases the "real poor" go from being a poor infant to a poor child to a poor adult and dying poor.

I would not expect an expat to understand the real meaning of being poor, not an expat from the UK Germany etc, but look at the difference to other immigrants from Morocco and E Europeans SAMS ETC.......they understand.

It sort of galls people to hear that phrase because a few decades ago Spanish, Italian and Portugese went to the UK because they really were poor in Spain, etc.

Of course British have a slightly distorted view of "poverty", the vast majority of them left the UK for a "better quality of life or the cafe culture, the sun. etc
Some came for the relaxed lifestlye, which is a condradiction in terms when talking about living in poverty because nothing is more stressfull that not being able to feed,house and clothe yourself and your family.

So stressfull in fact, that thousands went to the UK and sent money home to support the whole family including children left behind.

In fact a lot of south Americans are doing the same now and are trying to meet the legal requirements to be able to bring their minor children here, having to show they can support them.

Not quite the same as the British idea of poor in Spain, which means having MDD instead of a la carte, and a few less beers on the terrace until the pension or whatever hits the bank.

So posters who say they would rather be poor, should actually write that they would rather have less in Spain, that would save them from getting "well deserved" flak for what is quite franly a rather insulting phrase to the people who are actually living hand to mouth, ie POOR.

Being poor in Spain is far far worse than being poor in the UK, I lived for 6 years in Spain with my parents and you could not drag me back to Spain with flea-bitten donkeys

I have been poor and I have earned (in just one recent year) enough to go into the 50% tax bracket. and all points between. I'm back down to having the same problem that you mentioned first. I have to decide between much needed dental treatment (and I'm not talking bridges and implants here)and putting electricity into my house.
I'm not starving but I do know what it's like to count out of the penny jar for a pint of milk, both in the distant past and just a year ago. The first time was in the UK where although I was supported by the state I was vilified for being a single parent. The second time was here in Spain where there was no state support but where my neighbours would share their last loaf.
I too would rather be relatively poor here than relatively rich in either the cold (temperature) north of England or the cold (unhelpful) South of England.
I know what Meg means. Stop nitpicking you lot!

As I said "relative" poverty, I know poor in Galicia who have suvived all their life without electriciy and have no means of putting it in, no internet connection either.

A bit of a narrow viewciting the weather, as there are also a lot of poor in the colder parts of Spain, so the temperature argument does seem a bit petty, as though the weather is all there is too it.


Strange how all the poorest countries are also the hottest.

I've learned more from that excellent post than the dozens of books I've read about real Spain. Thanks.

I agree with JLFS.

Many of us may have had hard times and been perhaps classed as poor but I suspect that relatively few of us have known real poverty.

I have worked with people in poverty but that does not qualify me to know how it feels to be starving, homeless and desperate, it merely provides me with an insight.

Rosemary