bobd22

Domino your comment above is probably about right at the moment but it is what's to come? appears to me that the dire situation of the Med Countries financially find themselves in is being used by others mainly Germany to steam roller through legislation that no one ever planned for. There was a German economist Bod on Hardtalk the other day who asked why Britain was refusing to pay into further bailouts for the Euro? he stated that such bailouts have nothing to do with being involved in the Euro but as part of the EU we should pay to prop it up?? Somehow I don't think that would go down too well in the UK. He also said that the likes of Greece and Spain were dragging the EU down and not that they should be kicked out of the Euro but would benefit from leaving and possibly re joining later having devalued their currency.
I think that most in the UK are happy to be involved in Europe for trade etc after all that's what the 70's vote was about The Common Market but generally are not happy with the way it has gone in the last few years i.e. the route Mr Blair took us without doubt hoping to become the president. EU politicians are loath to admit the truth because it is one big gravy train for them the worst politicians seem to end up when dumped in their own country in the EU parliament.
As for Spanish people being happy with the EU as Cricketman says yes I can see that, their country has had a lot of benefit from being in the EU and the Euro initially. However when the take the bailout and the conditions of it start to tighten I doubt they will feel the same. The whole thing has become too big and unweildly Britain has never realy wanted more than trade links and should move back to that stance. My understanding is that it would have little difference for those of us with properties/living there.

jackytoo

The UK could still sell to Europe if they weren't in the EU, there are world trade agreements. I would imagine we buy more from Europe than they buy from us.

Compare the UK to a battered wife who stays because they are fearful of starting out on their own!

steviedeluxe

Seems strange though, that out of the two biggest EU knockers here, one has a persona of not needing to work and indeed spending the year in various holiday destinations, and the other is (we assume from his postings) a retired Canaries playboy... Quite why they shout "we can work out a successful future on our own" when it's obvious they're not the ones to do any such work, is beyond me!

In fact this type of issue should be decided upon by the under 40s surely (and yes that excludes quite a few of us)?

jackytoo

For all you know I could be 39, live in Tower Hamlets and work 40 hours for the Council

Everyone is affected by EU policies even if they are 93!

cricketman

People who think the UK is in the mess it is in because of the EU are completely deluded

HBG

I happen to agree with that, and to go one stage further, most of the British media are saying that non membership of the Eurozone is our greatest asset.

They continuously yap on about the failure of the Euro itself, a disaster of a currency. I'm sorry but the disaster is the pound Sterling, it has been devalued by ridiculous levels and only severe money printing has kept it alive. Our borrowing levels are horrendous, much worse than Spain's.

jackytoo

Pound sterling is exactly at the rate economists and the Government want it to be. The high rate of the euro is what got Spain and the other PIIGS into the mierda. Whatever the UK owes it can still borrow at 1.6% whilst other countries are hanging onto the coat-tails of the ECB buying it's junk rated bonds.

Dick Dasterdly

I agree with Jacky,membership of the Eu affects everyone,not only the under 40s and in any event maybe the oldest amongst us have the wisest heads.

I don't say the Eu has been the cause of all our problems Cman, nor do I see how we've benefited much from it in the way that Spain has.

However looking at the direction it is now taking us from Democrasy to virtual Dictatorship whilst squandering away so much hard earned cash,then the sooner we are out of it altogether the better and I think if most Europeans were ever allowed a Democratic vote on the matter they would tend to agree.

Ha,ha playboy eh,Stevie,not sure if that's an insult or a compliment, however I don't apologise for making the best of my semi or slightly more than semi retirement whenever possible, having previously grafted hard for seven days and often nights,365 for most of my life and still doing whatever I can,whenever I can with my remaining business interests.

Unfortunately your false presumptions are almost as far from the mark as your ridiculous links.

cricketman

And yet the UK's budget deficit has increased by 20% this year so far, just like in Spain, when Osborne predicted that it would be reduced

And the UK is in a double dip recession, just like in Spain

Imagine what the situation in the UK would be like if they had to borrow at Spain's levels!

HBG

The reason why Spain's borrowing levels are so high is directly linked to their tax take, tax avoidance being a southern European nightmare. The British and Germans pay their taxes, enforced by a long established system ensuring compliance.

The rating agencies are ruthless assessors of honesty, is one way of putting it, they're also mostly US based and look down on their southern neighbours, the crooked Mexicans, and by association, where the pesky Mexicans and those further south came from.

And Spain isn't exactly a transparent country.

bobd22

I would agree that we would be in deep mire if we had to borrow at Spains levels, surely that shows they have dealt with the situation better.

A lot of economists I have heard talking do say that the one good thing that the UK i.e. Darling and Brown did get right was the devaluing of the pound printing sufficient money in the first instance to be able to support the banks all be it they were too slow in taking control of Northern Rock. Spain in particular all be it not in the same problem position early in the crisis didn't do that and it's banks are now still reeling and the ECB per just about every "expert" has been to slow and piecemeal in it's approach and backing. The ECB is printing money as well may call it something different but outcome is the same.

Of course the UK has problems because it's main importer Europe has problems hence they are trying to export elsewhere time will tell if that works. I also agree that the pound is exactly where the BOE and government want it in fact for them probably too high, lets face it most of the southern Euro Zone countries would love to devalue but it's between that and staying in the euro with it's bailouts so they stay. Lets face it, it is not just the UK that says the Euro is flawed that is because it is maybe they can sort it out but for me the plan should have been tested tested and tested again before bringing it in.

The world Europe and UK is where it is I suppose time will tell who has the right course of action, but I think we will be a while finding out. I fear that the situation in Spain when they take the bailout will change a lot but we will have to wait and see. Maybe they wont impose such drastic measures as they have on the others that have taken the bailout? then I suppose if that is the case we have to wait and see how those countries react.

As for the age of people that being in the EU affects I don't see why it only affects those under 40. What is wrong with having a referendum. I believe things have changed and will change so much that it is now required if the vote is to stay fine if it is to renegotiate fine if it is to come out so be it. What is there to fear from a referendum on this issue.

HBG

There won't be a need for a referendum if they throw us out. We seem to struggle with reality here, they want us out, period.

The EU idea will work in due course, it has to, it's logical.

agoreira

Fortunately, the people that lend us money, see the UK as a far better risk than Spain, that's why they are prepared to charge us a rate four or five percent less than some of the Club Med countries. They perhaps appreciate that UK doesn't have around 24% unemployment, that it doesn't have a million plus unsold properties, that it doesn't have many thousands of illegal properties, that it doesn't have nearly all it's regions completely broke and horrendously in debt, that it doesn't have thousands of public employees that haven't been paid for months, and that it's not as corrupt as the Club Med crowd. CM and his cronies can try to convince us all is well, on a par with UK, unfortunately the men that control the purse strings beg to differ. ¡vive el sueño!

Dick Dasterdly

.....and most of all they trust us to pay it back.

I think it took in the region of half a century to pay off our war debt or should that be exhorbitant blackmail demands to the US after the war while they were still giving handouts to the rest of Europe.

Anyway we paid them off, but wether or not Spain could ever be considered even half as trustworthy and reliable is highly unlikely and one of the main reasons for their high interest rates charges.

Dick Dasterdly

First time I've ever seen logical and EU in the same sentence.