girlingfoss

Judging by most of the replies then, everyone is quite happy about changing the status quo.
And believe all the it is going to be ok, trust me.
As to facts there are plenty out there, research them, this is a major change, don't dismiss it. It will affect you personally. And good luck.

Fredbargate

There are very few facts out there but an awful lot of speculation.

girlingfoss

I f you can post you have access to the largest amount of information instantly available called the internet, Dont just take some media view, To those that say Britain managed in the past, read your history, particularly from WW2 to joining the EU. it was not a pretty picture, I lived it and remember.

Fredbargate

As do many others

Most of that information is not fact.

I have been an expat for 40 years and look forward to the end of the EU and a return to normality.

amideislas

Well aside from the obvious - the fact that a Britain outside the EU would make little difference in trade - lots of non-EU members conduct trade with the EU, including, perhaps to the largest extent, the two largest economies on the planet, but really, virtually all countries, even questionable ones like Russia are more dependent on trade with the EU than Britain.

But also considering that some of the EU's largest employers [of EU taxpayers] have billions invested in Britain (and vice-versa) and would have no motivation nor would ever allow EU political leadership to affect trade in any negative way. Besides being just stupid. And Britain's reliance on EU trade is diminishing anyway.

So, how would a Britain outside the EU be any kind of disaster? Show me some evidence of that. Don't start with the "no influence" rhetoric. Britain has little influence now, and it never will until it adopts the Euro and becomes another dependent province, as all eurozone members are.

Well, let's review. When Cameron first announced the referendum, all the top players - Merkel, Tusk, Juncker, and a few others scoffed. All made speeches claiming that there would be no special treatment for the UK. Merkel even came to Britain with that message to British voters.

But fast forward to this afternoon. Suddenly the EU seems willing to make all kinds of compromises. I wonder what motivated that? After all Britain so desperately needs the EU, dunnit?

Well none of those opinions have anything to do with Britain in-or-out, so, wasted text, really.

Bottom line, and why there is so much enthusiasm for keeping the UK in the EU is that the EU desperately needs Britain, especially now:

The EU is a young, inexperienced, and not-completely-sorted form of government, and as such, is not entirely stable (again, quite obviously). Expectably, there is no lack of varying types and levels of dissent. The EU is a great thing, really, and it serves well those who've traditionally struggled to maintain political and economic stability.

But Britain is a mature, experienced, well-sorted, politically and economically secure state (5th largest in the world). It doesn't need all those "extras" that others are dependent on. Britain needs a reliable, stable trading partner, that's all.

But that's the rub. A brexit sets a dangerous precedent, one which would embolden those dependent EU members who harbour various dissenting views to take the same exit paved by Britain. And that could very well have a massive snowball effect, which would at the very least, put the EU in dire straits, and worst case, a complete collapse. Nobody wants that, and every country worldwide would be a victim. Britain included.

So, there's your disaster scenario. But a well-planned, carefully executed, friendly exit could avoid all that (I also suspect we're seeing the beginning of that now). I for one, believe a brexit is inevitable - someday. Not because the EU is "bad" but because it's not in Britain's interests.

There's nothing wrong with the concept of Europe becoming a super-state. In fact, if it doesn't, it will likely fail. But I really don't see how Britain fits into that. Britain will never hand over its sovereignty to a super-state run largely by Germany. I just don't see it. Do you?

girlingfoss

So sorry I wasted your reading time,now I will exit gracefully stage left.

Dick Dasterdly

Eh ?
EU willing to make all sorts of compromises this afternoon ?

Please enlighten me, I must have missed something.

amideislas

From "absolutely no compromise" a year ago, to "OK, here's *some* things that we previously completely ruled out and vowed never to compromise".

Dick Dasterdly

Such as ?

After all his other failures and humiliations.....

Cameron’s vanishing renegotiation | Conservative Home

.......he was left hanging his hat on the four year no new immigrant benefit deal and even that's gone down the tube today.

Basically nothing else has changed, .....except of course the wording.

Not so long ago he was talking about total reform of the EU.
That's long forgotten, not even the vague possibility of a treaty change, though we did expect at least a few crumbs.

Guess I must pay a visit to specsavers I'm struggling to find even one.

Cameron has been sold a pup, yet again.
I'd hate to send him to buy me a second hand car.

rspltd

"Suddenly the EU seems willing to make all kinds of compromises. I wonder what motivated that? After all Britain so desperately needs the EU, dunnit?"

I suspect the fact that the UK is the 3rd largest overall contributor has something to do with that. How will the EU manage without the £10.4 billion that we currently pay? Plus there will be no MEPs to pay for with their expenses accounts - does this mean no Nigel Farage? and the courts will administer the Law rather than interpreting the 'spirit or intention'. Starting to seem like a winner to me.

iano

What will help soften the blow for the other 27 countries in the EU is not having to rebate 2/3 of that figure each year.

Dick Dasterdly

No problem there.

The EU simply impose a hefty fine on the UK in addition to the annual contribution and Cameron meekly coughs up, just as he did last year.

Dick Dasterdly

People overwhelmingly think David Cameron's EU deal is 'bad for Britain', poll finds | UK Politics | News | The Independent

iano

"...The negative reaction to the package could undermine support for European Union membership..."

See it's all going to plan then. Notice the rags were full of Dad's Army imagery on front pages today.

Stokes things up nicely, rush the referendum through in June, all while the pro-Euro celts are otherwise engaged, then Cam leaves post anoints Boris as his successor before the 2020 election. UKIP RIP, whichever way the referendum goes, as the Tories mop up the majority of the 5 million disenfranchised 'kippers.

Must admit, Cameron and Boris are playing a blinder, bad cop good cop. Best double act since Waldorf and Statler.

calman014

I think Cameron's "negotiations" are nothing more than hot air.

How come even Juncker was quite happy with some of the suggested changes?..probably because a lot of this extremely moderate stuff was in the pipeline already as UK is not the only country complaining about lack of flexibility and leadership from EU.

Netherlands (current chairman of EU) voted "No" in the last referendum...but it didn't make a blind bit of difference..we are still stuck.

In or out I think the current setup will have to be changed anyway as with each country that joins the arguments increase.

Did you see the UKIP broadcast and the scaremongering about Turkey?..
I think the chance of Turkey joining is a long way off..

If you live as an expat in EU or have been living abroad for a while maybe it's good to reflect on why you came abroad in the first place. Strangely enough it's thanks to EU legislation that many have been able to retain accrued rights from the UK. The Conservatives are already doing a fine job of dismantling all that anyway but it could cause problems of course in the case of a 'Brexit'. Either way I'm not worried.. I left when Thatcher came in and UK hasn't become that attractive that i'm desperate to go back.
As long as I'm allowed to keep my Passport I'm happy.