EU Referendum

Old Jan 31st 2016, 1:51 pm
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Default EU Referendum

Article in yesterday's Independent EU referendum: Embassies around Europe enlist Britain's expatriate community to vote | Europe | News | The Independent regarding campaigns by British Embassies to get expats to vote. Madrid Embassy starts theirs on 1st February. Cannot see anything on their page at the moment.

Two implications I have read about regarding Brexit. Free healthcare for pensioners may cease and pensions may be frozen at the rate paid following Brexit. Have folk given any thought to this when weighing up an in/out decision?
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Old Jan 31st 2016, 6:27 pm
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Default Re: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Arco-Iris View Post
Article in yesterday's Independent EU referendum: Embassies around Europe enlist Britain's expatriate community to vote | Europe | News | The Independent regarding campaigns by British Embassies to get expats to vote. Madrid Embassy starts theirs on 1st February. Cannot see anything on their page at the moment.

Two implications I have read about regarding Brexit. Free healthcare for pensioners may cease and pensions may be frozen at the rate paid following Brexit. Have folk given any thought to this when weighing up an in/out decision?
Have folk given any thought to the fact that the stay in campaign is based purely on scaremongering with zilch evidence to back their claims that this that or the other might or might not happen ?

Absolutely pathetic up to now.
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Old Jan 31st 2016, 6:29 pm
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Default Re: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Arco-Iris View Post
Article in yesterday's Independent EU referendum: Embassies around Europe enlist Britain's expatriate community to vote | Europe | News | The Independent regarding campaigns by British Embassies to get expats to vote. Madrid Embassy starts theirs on 1st February. Cannot see anything on their page at the moment.

Two implications I have read about regarding Brexit. Free healthcare for pensioners may cease and pensions may be frozen at the rate paid following Brexit. Have folk given any thought to this when weighing up an in/out decision?
But the fact that the UK is in the EEA will NOT change the freedom of movement one iota.
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Old Jan 31st 2016, 6:46 pm
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Default Re: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Arco-Iris View Post
Two implications I have read about regarding Brexit. Free healthcare for pensioners may cease and pensions may be frozen at the rate paid following Brexit.
Both are extremely unlikely.

They are both based on reciprocal arrangements and there is no reason why they should both not continue.

Any suggestion otherwise is just scaremongering.
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Old Jan 31st 2016, 7:53 pm
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Default Re: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post
Have folk given any thought to the fact that the stay in campaign is based purely on scaremongering with zilch evidence to back their claims that this that or the other might or might not happen ? Absolutely pathetic up to now.
Likewise the 'out' argument seems to based on the premise that it will be "alright trust me".
The 'outers' say that the EU will still want to trade with the UK. But it will be on EU terms. Look at Norway, in order to trade they have to comply with all of the trading and competition directives - and have no say in how those directives develop. There's a lot of talk of how we will be able to arrange trading agreements with the rest of the world outside the EU. Most parts of the world are already in forms of trading blocs or areas each with its own joining rules. The UK would have to sign up to loads of different sets of rules, probably even more onerous than we have now.
Don't get me wrong, I'm currently undecided, but I would like to hear some real arguments with real evidence rather than the hyperbole from both sides that's currently in the media.
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Old Jan 31st 2016, 8:34 pm
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Default Re: EU Referendum

I quite agree about hearing real arguments with real evidence and I really hope that the two issues I've read about are considered. I say this from a purely personal and self-centred point of view as a UK pensioner.

Fred, you say there is no reason why things should not continue because of reciprocal arrangements. But these arrangements are rooted in UK remaining in the EU. I do not understand your reasoning. Am I missing something?
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Old Jan 31st 2016, 8:46 pm
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Default Re: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by MikeJ View Post
Likewise the 'out' argument seems to based on the premise that it will be "alright trust me".
The 'outers' say that the EU will still want to trade with the UK. But it will be on EU terms. Look at Norway, in order to trade they have to comply with all of the trading and competition directives - and have no say in how those directives develop. There's a lot of talk of how we will be able to arrange trading agreements with the rest of the world outside the EU. Most parts of the world are already in forms of trading blocs or areas each with its own joining rules. The UK would have to sign up to loads of different sets of rules, probably even more onerous than we have now.
Don't get me wrong, I'm currently undecided, but I would like to hear some real arguments with real evidence rather than the hyperbole from both sides that's currently in the media.
The UK is the Worlds fifth largest trading economy and that factor alone puts it in a strong position to negotiate its own preferable agreements.
Add to that various other advantages that none of the other EU countries have,such as excellent connections worldwide as a result of its history, the commonwealth and in many cases a common language.

You mention Norway, however if Norway believed it was better off in than out it would have joined a long time ago.

Why should future trading with the EU be on EU terms ?
All evidence points to the contrary.
We have a massive trade deficit with the EU so it's much more in their interests to reach an acceptable deal.
Take Germany for example which exports twice as much to the UK as vice versa.
They have much more to lose than the UK if they can't be part of an agreement acceptable to both.

Looking at it in the longer term the EU is clearly in decline and in Worldwide terms will be of very little significance at all in thirty years time.

Meanwhile in total contrast to our huge EU trade deficit, our Worldwide trade, especially with large newly emerged forward thinking economies is making excellent progress.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...s-Juncker.html

Yes, even Junkers admits it !

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/ddfd4...#axzz3yrDbZuW0

Last edited by Dick Dasterdly; Jan 31st 2016 at 8:52 pm. Reason: Add on
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Old Jan 31st 2016, 9:00 pm
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Default Re: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Arco-Iris View Post
I quite agree about hearing real arguments with real evidence and I really hope that the two issues I've read about are considered. I say this from a purely personal and self-centred point of view as a UK pensioner.

Fred, you say there is no reason why things should not continue because of reciprocal arrangements. But these arrangements are rooted in UK remaining in the EU. I do not understand your reasoning. Am I missing something?
UK citizens were travelling freely to Spain and buying property in Spain long before either was in the EU.
With regard to making reciprocal arrangements, there is no way they are likely to kill the goose that lays the golden egg, because they have far too much to lose, much much more so than the UK, if they are unable to negotiate an agreement acceptable to both.
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Old Jan 31st 2016, 10:13 pm
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Default Re: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post
The UK is the Worlds fifth largest trading economy and that factor alone puts it in a strong position to negotiate its own preferable agreements.Add to that various other advantages that none of the other EU countries have,such as excellent connections worldwide as a result of its history, the commonwealth and in many cases a common language. You mention Norway, however if Norway believed it was better off in than out it would have joined a long time ago. Why should future trading with the EU be on EU terms ?All evidence points to the contrary.We have a massive trade deficit with the EU so it's much more in their interests to reach an acceptable deal.Take Germany for example which exports twice as much to the UK as vice versa.They have much more to lose than the UK if they can't be part of an agreement acceptable to both. Looking at it in the longer term the EU is clearly in decline and in Worldwide terms will be of very little significance at all in thirty years time. Meanwhile in total contrast to our huge EU trade deficit, our Worldwide trade, especially with large newly emerged forward thinking economies is making excellent progress. Europe's glory days at an end, warns Juncker - Telegraph Yes, even Junkers admits it ! The decline of Europe is a global concern - FT.com
But most of the above is speculation and wishful thinking.
Also, to use your Germany example. if we do run such a one-sided trade deficit with Germany why on earth would we want to negotiate a bi-lateral deal with Germany on worse terms than now outside the EU. (and I drive a Merc)
And actually, if you look at OECD figures rather than politically adjusted figures in the press, you will notice that the figures are quite a bit different.
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Old Jan 31st 2016, 10:37 pm
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Default Re: EU Referendum

With regard to future trading it could be argued that both sides of the argument are based on wishful thinking and speculation,
but then of course the most relevant contributory factor is considered, ie which side has most to lose.

I mentioned PART of an agreement, not necessarily bilateral and in any event the above theory would still apply.
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Old Feb 1st 2016, 3:35 am
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Default Re: EU Referendum

I am amazed that anybody residing a EU country that is not their own would even consider an exit. There is absolutely no guarantee everything will work out alright, if the UK leaves. It will be like jumping into a deep well with no idea how deep it is. The world is a hugely different place to pre EU days. Industries face huge competition,and thinking foreign companies that employ thousands of workers are going to stay put is fantasy. China although feeling the pinch at the moment, is going to be highly competitive in all spheres of commerce only a strong economic union will be able to compete.
The Outers can only offer speculation based on no hard evidence, because it has never been tried, and one has to ask what has the EU done to them that is so bad it has affected them personally. All they seem to say they dont want to be ruled by a bunch of foreigners. Strange when they want to live in foreign countries. As to pensions all things such as reciprocal agreements would have to be renegotiated. With the hope there are no ill feelings from the fellow EU members, good luck on that one.















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Old Feb 1st 2016, 4:54 pm
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Well said girlingfoss
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Old Feb 1st 2016, 5:09 pm
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Default Re: EU Referendum

Why would an expat living in Spain vote for the UK to leave the EU? It would be like taking an axe to the lifeboat.

That said, I remember Spain before it was in the EU. It was just as sunny, less expensive; the people were equally welcoming and the doctors just as caring. Of course a divorce is never as pleasant as a marriage.
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Old Feb 1st 2016, 5:18 pm
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Default Re: EU Referendum

Originally Posted by girlingfoss View Post
There is absolutely no guarantee everything will work out alright, if the UK leaves.
Is there any guarantee that everything will work out alright if we stay in????
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Old Feb 1st 2016, 5:37 pm
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Default Re: EU Referendum

See below to register to vote (terms and conditions apply!)

If you were registered to vote in the UK within the last 15 years, then you can register as an overseas voter and have your say. #yourvotematters.

Go to www.gov.uk/register-to-vote and fill in your data. All you need is your National Insurance number, passport details and date of birth. (Even if you don’t have an NI number, you can still register.)
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