cricketman

US businesses in particular spend millions on PR firms and lobby groups to spread lies that deny global warming.

They dont want us to feel guilty, so we can carry on spending our money on cr*p

Sorry dont have a source for you here...

chrisfromusa

Scientific companies also spend a lot of money on PR firms and lobby groups that spread lies to support global warming. Science companies do bend and distort the science so their firm can win more contracts and people would buy their products and throw grants at them.

bil

How is just agreeing being objective?

Which is the con?

1 CO2 is a greenhouse gas
2. Greenhouse gasses warm the planet.
3. The more greenhouse gas, the bigger the effect.
4. People have increased the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

chrisfromusa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeY8oqAGhyA

That's a Channel 4 documentary countering AGW. It's not some obscure video you only find on youtube, this was on one of your major channels.

jackytoo

I watched that programme, very interesting. People like to follow the status quo though. Seeing all these dying politicians clinging on to it like Brown is pathetic.

Personally I am sick of seeing melting ice caps and ****ing polar bears. If I believed it I would try to reduce my carbon footprint etc. but what are all of you believers doing.............. Turning off the computer would be a start

Cape Blue

http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_rel...g-tobacco.html

and the pdf is here http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documen...xon_report.pdf

chrisfromusa

I've come to one conclusion. It's clear none of us are gonna be changing anybody's mind, so why don't we bury this hatchet and move on? I think a topic closure is in order.

Cape Blue

http://civillibertarian.blogspot.com...lers-list.html

http://www.durangobill.com/Swindle_Swindle.html

Just because it was on TV, does not make it correct - the peer-review process of proper scientific research does not make riveting TV.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Christy
He is the IPCC guy who is talking at 4 mins - the extract makes him look like he is saying "that is not true" to the whole MMCC, which he is not - he just believes that scientists saying the will be 50M sea rises are over-egging it.

jackytoo

Just because it's on TV doesn't make it correct, exactly but that counts both ways. The wheel that squeaks the loudest is the one that gets the grease. What is your take on the data being manipulated, data being destroyed and made unavailable to dissenting climatologists?

bil

I think it's wrong, but if I was really p*ssed at someone, I wouldn't give them help either.

Part of the problem is that this has all become a belief system, and then those people are incapable of applying critical reasoning anymore.

All the argument is about interpreting data.

The only facts are these.

CO2 heats.
more CO2 heats more.
People have released extra CO2 thru burning fossil fuel.

That is AGW

Please demonstrate clearly if you can refute any of those points using facts.

Whether the temp goes up, down or sideways is irrelevant. Unless you can disprove the above points, AGW is real. How big the effect is or how relevant it will be is another question entirely.

Dick Dasterdly

Having heard so many conflicting theories I no longer know what,...if anything,to believe,.....
Apart of course from what I have seen over many years with my own eyes.
In my part of the UK many moons ago I have seen huge depths of snow and freeze ups lasting many months,....no longer the case.
I have seen similar changes over many years in Scandinavia.
The Northern Baltic used to be almost constantly icebound throughout the Winter,...but not any more.
The Swedes used to look forward to Winter snow and constant frost to lighten up the long Winter darkness.......now their Winters are often dark,damp and dreary.

One other thing I've noticed is that these changes including cloudier,wetter Summer spells are caused mainly by the prevailing wind direction which is now very much more constantly from the S.W than it used to be....therefore even wetter and cloudier, as against the long very cold but often bright Winter weather systems coming in from the N.E.that used to be the case.
Why the increase in the prevailing S.Westerlies that cause this,?
I've absolutely no idea......

chrisfromusa

Seems like the climate is just shifting places. It's getting colder here and snow's becoming more frequent. Last summer here we've gotten storm after storm after storm, and I've hardly seen the sun during the whole summer. I believe whatever storms we get here on the eastern seaboard goes directly to you guys. Did you guys in England get a lot of storms the past summer?

chulo

Nobody gonna mention the previous polar shifts, the wobble and evidence of many many many millions of years that found the planet temperatures changing regularly, well not regular in human life but in our planets life time, its been regular.

We no that its happened as scientist have found remains of tropical vegetation near the present poles and signs of glaciation found in the present tropics.

Another proof: the magnetic particles in many ancient rocks do not point toward the present magnetic poles.

The planet is changing along with the climate, it always had and always will change no matter what we do.

We had no control over the Ice Age, it will happen again.

The sun will stop burning and the world will stop spinning, the human race as with all creatures are not here for ever.

Best make the most of it now, 2012 is coming.

cricketman

Yes of course, all the above is correct

The danger is that human behaviour is causing the Earth's climate to change at a rate much faster than it would have done if humans weren't around.

Another thing worth mentioning is the rate of species extinction on the planet. From time to time in the past there have been periods of max extinction where around 90% of the world's species have died out in the space of a few hundred years (that is a short space of time in nature).

The last time this happened was when the dinosaurs were wiped out

We are in the middle of the next great extinction. Species are being wiped out at a faster rate then since the dinoaurs time. And all because of human behaviour. Lets just hope we dont wipe ourselves out as well, because when you look at the odds, that is the most likely scenario.

chulo

Better switch off the PC and internet, stop drinking coffee and hunt our diners then.

No matter what we do, it cannot be reversed.

Its very easy to state we are causing the effects, but can we be sure they would be slower if we did not pollute as much as we do.

Do we believe its possible for every person on the planet to change there way of life, I doubt it.

I have to recycle my food, I have to seperate waste for recycling, why, well the council makes money selling my waste to China and sells this as a green issue.

That is the problem, green issues make money.

If you approach an invester with a product that people probably could live without and not very green he`ll not invest.

Now if you change that product, and it can be sold/marketed as a green product, he`ll bite your hand of, its the holy grail of investing.

Now that because he wants to save the planet or make money.

Green is King and not for the right reasons.

Science is following the same path as it would be career suicide to follow another path or idea until you could prove beyond doubt you are right, so science is hugely flawed, plus it changes one theory today can change the next.

There are more pressing concerns than the planet.

I`m likely to be dead in 30 yrs time, maybe less, I don`t really care if the human race ends in 200 yrs.