Energy Upgrading for Shower Problems
#61
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Joined: Apr 2021
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In both the UK and Spain, electric water boilers (also known as water heaters or cylinders) should be set to a temperature between 60°C and 65°C to prevent the growth of harmful bacteria like Legionella, which can cause Legionnaires' disease. Goggle search AI...
Electric water heaters already installed should be set at 60°C to limit the risk of Legionella contamination. Gas or oil water heaters already installed should be set at 49°C, because the risk of scalding is greater with these devices.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2094925/
Electric water heaters already installed should be set at 60°C to limit the risk of Legionella contamination. Gas or oil water heaters already installed should be set at 49°C, because the risk of scalding is greater with these devices.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2094925/
#62
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,095
From: Singapore to Surfers Paradise to... Tenerife... to Gran Canaria!











So the default 'eco' setting on a new water boiler isn't a good choice as it's only 55°C if I'm not mistaken?
#63
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,256
From: Xirles Tiny village near Polop











The most eco way to heat water is to leave the boiler on permanently.
It takes way less power to keep the tank at a set level than to only turn it on a couple of hours before you need it.
Changing the subject slightly.
It amazes me that very few houses seem to have solar water heaters here.
They are everywhere in the Caribbean and parts of the US. This is the best water heater going, I spent time in a factory in Denmark and even with the low outside temps there. The solar heater could get the water to at least 40c even when the outside temp was zero. They then ran this through a gas heater to bring it up to its required temp.
When we finally move, that is the first thing I will get installed.
#64
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,130
From: Alicante











Eco settings are just bits of string, all different length.
The most eco way to heat water is to leave the boiler on permanently.
It takes way less power to keep the tank at a set level than to only turn it on a couple of hours before you need it.
That is not necessarily true as it depends on factors such as boiler capacity, thermostat setting, hot water usage, and potential cheap electricity deals. I experimented long and hard on this subject with my heater in France and while 15 years later I don't recall the actual numbers I do remember that even with 220lt ,of which we were using perhaps 50lt/day, the cost of leaving it on 24/7 was something like 3x the cost of using a timer for a couple of hours in the early morning. Smaller tanks will be even more costly to run 24/7.
Changing the subject slightly.
It amazes me that very few houses seem to have solar water heaters here.
They are everywhere in the Caribbean and parts of the US. This is the best water heater going, I spent time in a factory in Denmark and even with the low outside temps there. The solar heater could get the water to at least 40c even when the outside temp was zero. They then ran this through a gas heater to bring it up to its required temp.
That's exactly what I do!
I have a 145lt collector on the roof (Solcrafte) which, from about this time of the year through to maybe early October, gives me constant usable hot water. Outside those times it only takes 2-3 hours of sun to heat the water to around 40c+ but when there is not sufficient sun, and in the mornings when much of the stored heat will have been lost, it's directed to a supplementary gas heater. My total costs for year round hot water therefore boil down to (ha) little more than one 13kg bottle of gas per annum or around €15.
All that said taking into account the cost of installing the collector, and amortising that over 10 years, brings that up to some €180/pa or €15/mth which is in fact significantly more than it would cost me to do all my heating by gas so if/when the collector does give up the ghost I will have to do the sums to see if the capital cost of replacement makes sense or not.
The most eco way to heat water is to leave the boiler on permanently.
It takes way less power to keep the tank at a set level than to only turn it on a couple of hours before you need it.
That is not necessarily true as it depends on factors such as boiler capacity, thermostat setting, hot water usage, and potential cheap electricity deals. I experimented long and hard on this subject with my heater in France and while 15 years later I don't recall the actual numbers I do remember that even with 220lt ,of which we were using perhaps 50lt/day, the cost of leaving it on 24/7 was something like 3x the cost of using a timer for a couple of hours in the early morning. Smaller tanks will be even more costly to run 24/7.
Changing the subject slightly.
It amazes me that very few houses seem to have solar water heaters here.
They are everywhere in the Caribbean and parts of the US. This is the best water heater going, I spent time in a factory in Denmark and even with the low outside temps there. The solar heater could get the water to at least 40c even when the outside temp was zero. They then ran this through a gas heater to bring it up to its required temp.
That's exactly what I do!
I have a 145lt collector on the roof (Solcrafte) which, from about this time of the year through to maybe early October, gives me constant usable hot water. Outside those times it only takes 2-3 hours of sun to heat the water to around 40c+ but when there is not sufficient sun, and in the mornings when much of the stored heat will have been lost, it's directed to a supplementary gas heater. My total costs for year round hot water therefore boil down to (ha) little more than one 13kg bottle of gas per annum or around €15.
All that said taking into account the cost of installing the collector, and amortising that over 10 years, brings that up to some €180/pa or €15/mth which is in fact significantly more than it would cost me to do all my heating by gas so if/when the collector does give up the ghost I will have to do the sums to see if the capital cost of replacement makes sense or not.
Last edited by Notdunroamin; May 11th 2025 at 8:08 pm.
#65
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Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 147

Wanted to update everyone that took the time to offer up advice on our shower problems :
It turns out that our boiler has TWO tanks and the plumber (dumb ass!) set it to one tank so that we were only using 50% of the water for showers. There is a programme on it which it turns out is almost invisible to the naked eye as the boiler is right next to the window and the programme controls come up digitally in faint outline at the side of the temperature control. It took us two hours to figure out why we couldn't see any programme controls after contacting the boiler company, when in fact it was already set at "one human" a faint outline on the right of the temperature control, a silvery outline of a head and shoulders and to change to two tanks you had to press the "mode" button softly on the front to change it, and then set the temperature you want. There are other options you can choose like "Smart" mode which seems to adapt to your heating habits and you can as I say have it on one tank to save energy The plumber said he thought he probably set it on one tank to save energy !🙄 I wouldn't have minded that so much as the fact that we brought him back when we were having problems with the shower and he charged us to increase the thermostatic valve inside the shower bar which made virtually no difference to the length of the showers we were getting and now we know why !! It was the boiler company sending us the manual and explaining what to do that sorted it in the end.
We haven't yet checked to see how long the hot water lasts now but I will get back to update everyone when we have tried it.
Thanks in the meantime to everyone that took the time to give advice !😉
It turns out that our boiler has TWO tanks and the plumber (dumb ass!) set it to one tank so that we were only using 50% of the water for showers. There is a programme on it which it turns out is almost invisible to the naked eye as the boiler is right next to the window and the programme controls come up digitally in faint outline at the side of the temperature control. It took us two hours to figure out why we couldn't see any programme controls after contacting the boiler company, when in fact it was already set at "one human" a faint outline on the right of the temperature control, a silvery outline of a head and shoulders and to change to two tanks you had to press the "mode" button softly on the front to change it, and then set the temperature you want. There are other options you can choose like "Smart" mode which seems to adapt to your heating habits and you can as I say have it on one tank to save energy The plumber said he thought he probably set it on one tank to save energy !🙄 I wouldn't have minded that so much as the fact that we brought him back when we were having problems with the shower and he charged us to increase the thermostatic valve inside the shower bar which made virtually no difference to the length of the showers we were getting and now we know why !! It was the boiler company sending us the manual and explaining what to do that sorted it in the end.
We haven't yet checked to see how long the hot water lasts now but I will get back to update everyone when we have tried it.
Thanks in the meantime to everyone that took the time to give advice !😉
#66
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,172











Wanted to update everyone that took the time to offer up advice on our shower problems :
It turns out that our boiler has TWO tanks and the plumber (dumb ass!) set it to one tank so that we were only using 50% of the water for showers. There is a programme on it which it turns out is almost invisible to the naked eye as the boiler is right next to the window and the programme controls come up digitally in faint outline at the side of the temperature control. It took us two hours to figure out why we couldn't see any programme controls after contacting the boiler company, when in fact it was already set at "one human" a faint outline on the right of the temperature control, a silvery outline of a head and shoulders and to change to two tanks you had to press the "mode" button softly on the front to change it, and then set the temperature you want. There are other options you can choose like "Smart" mode which seems to adapt to your heating habits and you can as I say have it on one tank to save energy The plumber said he thought he probably set it on one tank to save energy !🙄 I wouldn't have minded that so much as the fact that we brought him back when we were having problems with the shower and he charged us to increase the thermostatic valve inside the shower bar which made virtually no difference to the length of the showers we were getting and now we know why !! It was the boiler company sending us the manual and explaining what to do that sorted it in the end.
We haven't yet checked to see how long the hot water lasts now but I will get back to update everyone when we have tried it.
Thanks in the meantime to everyone that took the time to give advice !😉
It turns out that our boiler has TWO tanks and the plumber (dumb ass!) set it to one tank so that we were only using 50% of the water for showers. There is a programme on it which it turns out is almost invisible to the naked eye as the boiler is right next to the window and the programme controls come up digitally in faint outline at the side of the temperature control. It took us two hours to figure out why we couldn't see any programme controls after contacting the boiler company, when in fact it was already set at "one human" a faint outline on the right of the temperature control, a silvery outline of a head and shoulders and to change to two tanks you had to press the "mode" button softly on the front to change it, and then set the temperature you want. There are other options you can choose like "Smart" mode which seems to adapt to your heating habits and you can as I say have it on one tank to save energy The plumber said he thought he probably set it on one tank to save energy !🙄 I wouldn't have minded that so much as the fact that we brought him back when we were having problems with the shower and he charged us to increase the thermostatic valve inside the shower bar which made virtually no difference to the length of the showers we were getting and now we know why !! It was the boiler company sending us the manual and explaining what to do that sorted it in the end.
We haven't yet checked to see how long the hot water lasts now but I will get back to update everyone when we have tried it.
Thanks in the meantime to everyone that took the time to give advice !😉
#67
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Forum Regular



Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 147

Hopefully, since we found how to turn on the "Two Person" programme, hubby has had a successful shower and deliberately stayed in longer just to see if the hot water lasted and it did ! I will let you know how I get on 😠Does make me wonder how much energy is saved by using the "One Person" programme but I suppose you can always switch between the two when you are not wanting the boiler for showers.🤔
#68
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,172











Hopefully, since we found how to turn on the "Two Person" programme, hubby has had a successful shower and deliberately stayed in longer just to see if the hot water lasted and it did ! I will let you know how I get on 😠Does make me wonder how much energy is saved by using the "One Person" programme but I suppose you can always switch between the two when you are not wanting the boiler for showers.🤔
#71
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Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 147

You could be right. I asked the company who made the boiler how much money you saved on the energy using the "one Person" tank instead of two and he said "NONE" ! So why have one to start with if you are not saving money using the "One Person", One Tank option?
#72
So, because it's more complicated and more expensive, it must be better. This is not always true. In 23 years, we have gone through about 5 units (the house needs two). They don't last long, as corrosion and calcium build-up kill them. We need two as the house is long, so the pipe runs are long, and we have two bathrooms 50m apart. Even then, we tend to run the hot tap in the sink for 15 seconds or so to get the hot water flowing before getting in the shower.
Running the heater 24/7 is NOT more efficient than using a timer - a simple understanding of physics will tell you that. I have tested our system using a power meter, and 24/7 is far less efficient, especially if you have a peak/off-peak supply. When we built our house 23 years ago, we looked at a solar heated system, but with only two of us using the shower, it was not cost-effective. Now we are on solar electricity, it's free anyway.
Running the heater 24/7 is NOT more efficient than using a timer - a simple understanding of physics will tell you that. I have tested our system using a power meter, and 24/7 is far less efficient, especially if you have a peak/off-peak supply. When we built our house 23 years ago, we looked at a solar heated system, but with only two of us using the shower, it was not cost-effective. Now we are on solar electricity, it's free anyway.
#73
Thread Starter
Forum Regular



Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 147

So, because it's more complicated and more expensive, it must be better. This is not always true. In 23 years, we have gone through about 5 units (the house needs two). They don't last long, as corrosion and calcium build-up kill them. We need two as the house is long, so the pipe runs are long, and we have two bathrooms 50m apart. Even then, we tend to run the hot tap in the sink for 15 seconds or so to get the hot water flowing before getting in the shower.
Running the heater 24/7 is NOT more efficient than using a timer - a simple understanding of physics will tell you that. I have tested our system using a power meter, and 24/7 is far less efficient, especially if you have a peak/off-peak supply. When we built our house 23 years ago, we looked at a solar heated system, but with only two of us using the shower, it was not cost-effective. Now we are on solar electricity, it's free anyway.
Running the heater 24/7 is NOT more efficient than using a timer - a simple understanding of physics will tell you that. I have tested our system using a power meter, and 24/7 is far less efficient, especially if you have a peak/off-peak supply. When we built our house 23 years ago, we looked at a solar heated system, but with only two of us using the shower, it was not cost-effective. Now we are on solar electricity, it's free anyway.
#74
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Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,185











Wanted to update everyone that took the time to offer up advice on our shower problems :
It turns out that our boiler has TWO tanks and the plumber (dumb ass!) set it to one tank so that we were only using 50% of the water for showers. There is a programme on it which it turns out is almost invisible to the naked eye as the boiler is right next to the window and the programme controls come up digitally in faint outline at the side of the temperature control. It took us two hours to figure out why we couldn't see any programme controls after contacting the boiler company, when in fact it was already set at "one human" a faint outline on the right of the temperature control, a silvery outline of a head and shoulders and to change to two tanks you had to press the "mode" button softly on the front to change it, and then set the temperature you want. There are other options you can choose like "Smart" mode which seems to adapt to your heating habits and you can as I say have it on one tank to save energy The plumber said he thought he probably set it on one tank to save energy !🙄 I wouldn't have minded that so much as the fact that we brought him back when we were having problems with the shower and he charged us to increase the thermostatic valve inside the shower bar which made virtually no difference to the length of the showers we were getting and now we know why !! It was the boiler company sending us the manual and explaining what to do that sorted it in the end.
We haven't yet checked to see how long the hot water lasts now but I will get back to update everyone when we have tried it.
Thanks in the meantime to everyone that took the time to give advice !😉
It turns out that our boiler has TWO tanks and the plumber (dumb ass!) set it to one tank so that we were only using 50% of the water for showers. There is a programme on it which it turns out is almost invisible to the naked eye as the boiler is right next to the window and the programme controls come up digitally in faint outline at the side of the temperature control. It took us two hours to figure out why we couldn't see any programme controls after contacting the boiler company, when in fact it was already set at "one human" a faint outline on the right of the temperature control, a silvery outline of a head and shoulders and to change to two tanks you had to press the "mode" button softly on the front to change it, and then set the temperature you want. There are other options you can choose like "Smart" mode which seems to adapt to your heating habits and you can as I say have it on one tank to save energy The plumber said he thought he probably set it on one tank to save energy !🙄 I wouldn't have minded that so much as the fact that we brought him back when we were having problems with the shower and he charged us to increase the thermostatic valve inside the shower bar which made virtually no difference to the length of the showers we were getting and now we know why !! It was the boiler company sending us the manual and explaining what to do that sorted it in the end.
We haven't yet checked to see how long the hot water lasts now but I will get back to update everyone when we have tried it.
Thanks in the meantime to everyone that took the time to give advice !😉
Glad you got it sorted though without extra costs...
#75
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Forum Regular



Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 147

Thanks, I think our plumber had an aversion to user manuals, he failed to give us back the one for our ceiling fans too which have timers and we haven't a clue how they work!🙄



