We live on the Costa del Sol and have received a letter from Endesa about fitting an ICP to the electric meter. Based on my potensia of 9,85KW they would want to fit a 15 KW ICP. This would mean that even with the minimum use (a kettle uses 15 KW) it is likely the electricity will trip. This is a real concern as we are away a lot and it could mean that pumps, freezers etc. will trip off whilst we are away. I have heard that the alternative is having a 30 euro surcharge added to our monthly bill, which is also unacceptable. My electrician has said to sit tight and do nothing for the moment. Hoping we can get some more advice about this.

hang on, you said a 15kw icp.. you could run the airport on that hahahahhaha

and a kettle ?? 15kw!?!?!?


i take it you mean a 15a icp? thats about 2kw. who told you that? on a 9,85kw supply (10kw mp) it should be a 40a icp, at least - which is enough to run everything on

example:

2.2KW = 10Amp;

3.3Kw = 15 Amp;

4.4Kw = 20Amp;

5.5Kw = 25 Amp;

so for 9,2kw you are looking at a 40a icp, at least.

Thanks bfg, 15a it is, you can tell this is not my area of expertise!

So are you saying that a 15a ICP is way too small? If so does anyone know how to make representations to Endesa?

It's my understanding that any GOOD electrician can fit an ICP and fill in the necessary paperwork.

Get quotes as it will cost no matter who does it for you.

Thank you but if the purpose of the ICP is to restrict electricity how can we prevent disasters like freezers cutting out whilst we are away? Or is the recommended ampage of 15 arbitrary? In other words can we fit an ICP with higher output?

I have to assume that either you have misread the letter or Endesa have made a mistake - they would never fit a 15amp ICP if you were contacted for 9.85kw.

If you are contracted for 9.85kw then Endesa would fit a 40 amp ICP as a matter of course. If they fitted anything less you would be unable to draw the power that you are contracted for and paying for.

There is a monthly standing charge of approx €2 for each KW of contracted potencia so you should already be paying about €20 a month. You should check your latest bill to see if this is the case.

It would be almost impossible for the ICP to trip in your absence as you could not be drawing that much power if you were not there. There is always a risk of the normal earth trip tripping while you are away anyway and that would spoil your freezer. There is not much you can do about that apart from fit a re-arming earth trip.

The reason Endesa are insisting on everyone having an ICP is that without it, there is nothing to stop you drawing more power than you are paying for (in the monthly charge).

We are just going thru this. It's going to cost us a grand to get the power line put to the outside, new boxes and a few other things and an upgrade to 5.something KW.

That's apparantly plenty for the average needs here, water pump, welder and so on, just mustn't run everything at the same time.

Thanks everyone I will go back and check exactly what the situation is.
Your help is much appreciated.

Ok, I now have the technical jargon from a friend in the same position he writes:

"Amps times Volts = Watts therefore 10,000 Watts (10Kw) is just under 45 Amps with a voltage 0f 230 Volts

I think there is some confusion between single phase and three phase. If you have a single phase supply and a ICP fitted of 45Amps then you can obviously draw up to 45Amps before there is a risk of tripping.

If you have a three phase supply then a 15Amp ICP is fitted giving you the same total power allowance of 45Amps as you get 15Amps per phase. The problem is that the whole unit trips if there is a demand for more than 15Amps on any phase. Your individual circuits with their own switches on the fuse board are connected to one phase or another so that if e.g. you have
12 circuits you will probably find that there will be four connected to each phase to balance the load. You could easily switch on, for example, a kettle and a washing machine both connected to the same phase and that could be over 20Amps and trip the ICP."

Given the above does anyone any more thoughts on this?

The best thing to do is; firstly consult the bill for consumption - are you contracting the correct amount? From this you can determine the correct ICP (per phase etc.)

The second thing I would do is to get an electrician to check loading on each phase. If you find that the system is NOT balanced. For example they have put the kettle, washing machine and hob all on one phase (they shouldn't have done but hey, this is Spain), then you may need to rewire bits or to increase the ICP.

Only me, I'd just pay a sparky

OK - you didn't say you had a 3 phase supply.

What you say is 100% correct - we are in the same position.

We did not have an ICP because we have the off peak tariff and for some reason Endesa did not require an ICP when the house was built 7 years ago.

Our initial contract was for only 4.93kw even thought they knew that we had a 15kw installation upgradeable to 25kw.

When the guy arrived to fit the new ICP it was a 3x7.5kw trip because that was what we were contracted for. I told him to take it back. After much hassle with Endesa we had to upgrade our contract twice at a cost of €450 and ended up with a 14kw trip (3x20amp) which tripped as soon as we put the cooker on. At least, over the seven years that we had been paying the lower monthly charge, we had saved a lot more than that!

I got the three phases redistributed - the cooker is now on one phase on it's own - and it all works OK as long as we are careful with what we put on at the same time. To be totally OK we would need to upgrade to nearer 20kw.

Under these circumstances a three phase supply is a real pain - we would have much more flexibility with a 9.8kw single phase supply and it would be cheaper.

Not sure how you check whether we are contracted for the correct amount, but you are right I will get my electrician in to check the loads and re-wire if necessary. Thanks for the help.

On your bill it gives the "Potencia Contratado" under "Datos del Cliente" in the top right hand box.

When you look at the actual section that says "Facturacion" it will show the "potencia" charge on the first line. It will show the potencia figure again.

What you will have to be careful about is that if you have to increase your contracted potencia to over 10kw (to get a sensible ICP) you will move out of the government controlled TUR tariff and the costs could go up significantly - like 50%.

I changed over to Iberdrola as they were much cheaper than Endesa for the off peak supply.

Thanks Fred that is very interesting, I will check out the other supplier.