HBG

We differ. I despise people who send their own flesh and blood to prison.

angiescarr

And I am saddened by people who don't teach their children to be responsible for their own actions. I agree it's a VERY tough call. But I may well have been a 'horrible woman'. I think I'd have made my kid take it back to the shop and apologise.

bil

I can see it from both sides. On the one hand, yeah, everyone responsible for their own actions, simply wonderful, tho of course the UK would be effectively ungoverned with a big chunk of MPs in jail for misappropriating State money.

and on the other hand, Like HBG, I'm damned if I would grass my son.

agoreira

Yes, that would have shown him! The fact that you had brought up a looter and a thief, would have meant that your previous parental guidance hadn't worked. No wonder we're in the state we are when we have people bragging about getting their kids to lie on CV's and others not thinking their kids should be punished for looting and stealing.

Domino

I can see the arguement from both sides on this, having posted much earlier in this discussion

but surely it is wrong for your child to know you know they have carried out a criminal act and by doing nothing are condoning their action ?
you are conspiring with your child to not be honest.

look at the woman who handed herself in rather than have to wait for a knock on the door which may never come. Or to get somewhere important in her future career and have it dragged out in the open by whatever replaces the NoTW. Regrettably it is highly unlikely she will be able to live the career she had planned out, but she will be able to bring up children explaining to them she has been honest and expects them to follow her example.

turning in a child is hard, oh so hard, but I just hope she and he will be able to look to the future with an honest and open relationship.

Domino

bil, please don't bring up MP's again, I might get into trouble for it - again !
rgds

Dick Dasterdly

Opinions seem divided regarding the woman who laid her son in or took him to the police.
I think as in a lot of these cases ppl. as well as the media often rush to pass judgement without trying to fully comprehend the circumstances.

For instance there was quite a lot of criticism regarding what appeared to be excessive sentences handed out in some of the looting and incitement cases.
Having heard some of the finer details of a few of the controversial ones fully explained by a magistrate, I better understood that some of these sentences were much better justified than appeared to be the case at first sight.

I don't know the background about the woman who laid her son in, but is it not possible she did it out of desperation after realizing that he had already been getting out of hand for quite a while and she feared she couldn't manage the situation any longer ?
Also did the kid have a father at home to help keep him under control ?
If not then maybe she was well justified in her action.

As I said I personally don't know the truth of it, but I do feel that if the gutter press haven't given enough hard accurate facts to justify their sensational headlines, then their reports should be treated with a pinch of salt until such time as the do.

HBG

Individually, unless we're seasoned philosophers, we can only comment on our little part of the world, on our perception of the truth and the other things that get in the way.

What was hammered into me in my formative years was the concept of loyalty, loyalty to the family came first, then loyalty to the part of the community you belonged to, and finally loyalty to a belief.

I couldn't fight my way out of that, and eventually didn't want to, it had seeped into my bones.

My youngest son begged me never to watch him play rugby again after I ran on to the pitch on seeing him tackled unfairly. I couldn't anyway, because the school banned me from watching. I felt a complete idiot after it happened, but nothing could have stopped me at the time. My wife didn't speak to me for weeks.

I tried not to lie to them, but lying for them came naturally. It still does.

bil

You of course are perfectly honest, and have never ever lied about anything, have you? Not in the slightest. Hmmm?

and you would grass your own flesh and blood in an instant for the slightest offence?

I dunno, that just says something to me.....

bil

I just think that it is relevant. They are in a position of trust and tell us that we must despise benefit thieves.

Isn't Cameron a benefit thief?

I will not tolerate lessons in morality from a practising whore.

bil

Now that's a thoughtful response, and worth considering.

agoreira

Of course I never said that I hadn't told una mentira piadosa at some time, however I can categorically say I have never lied on a CV, or encouraged my kids to. We obviously have different ideas on what is a "slight offence", looting and stealing is not trivial, and that's what we are discussing. If you think a telling off from Dad is sufficient punishment for looting and stealing, that tells me a lot about you. I'll leave you to play with the ex plod, kindred spirits.

bil

First off, you like others are quick to stand in judgement. We don't actually know what it was that this boy did. Was he just there, did he take part, were his actions serious or trivial?

I appreciate that you would be happy to grass him in in a heartbeat were he your son, and I'm sure he would respect you completely for that.

Never exaggerated a CV or cast yourself in a better light?

Personally I would always advise my children to make the very best of themselves on a CV, but without telling crass, obvious lies which is simply stupid.

I do appreciate tho that moral paragons like yourself do live to a far higher atandard that us lesser folk in the real world.

Basically you are happy to tell lies up to a certain level.

Another English irregular verb, I'm thinking.

Domino

probably is relevent bil, when we had MP's who were actually lords and barons etc they were rooking the public purse and the common man had no vote. When landowners were given the vote they rooked the public purse and the common man had no vote. Eventually the common man (and even later woman) got his own vote but still the MP's rook the public purse.

So whether our MP's are independently wealthy or reliant on the public purse the inflation of expenses still occurs.
and yet MP's get so sniffy when it transpires that someone who isnt resident in the UK has made donations to a party.

how can we expect our kids (getting back to thread for Lorna) to act with honesty when all those who are supposed to be an example are skimming from the system. They see people on DLA who have a full time job, working on the lump etc etc, blue badge when medically fit. they see their peers nicking things and getting away with it, and Mum & Dad keep telling them "honesty is the best policy" whilst taking pens, pencils, paper from their employer. ! ! !

I know nothing about Cameron and benefit theft so no comment.

as to " will not tolerate lessons in morality from a practising whore "
there was a time when fathers used to pay a whore to teach their sons

bil

As you say, the working man has ben bled white for thousands of years by organised thugs.

WRTo Cameron.

When the expenses scandal hit, he and Brown both were very quick to pay back quite large sums of money that they presumably felt would have been seen as misappropriation of public funds by the rest of us.

A benefit thief who pays some of it back is still a benefit thief, and since MPs have been so fast to pin the label of 'benefit thief' on those who take state money which they are not entitled to, then when they do the same, I feel that they too should wear that label.