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Does austerity lead to crime?

Does austerity lead to crime?

Old Nov 15th 2011, 9:10 am
  #46  
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Default Re: Does austerity lead to crime?

Originally Posted by Domino
answering questions with questions,,,,,,,
why should a man's skin colour predispose him to crime - of any sort.?
why should where a man hangs is hat predispose him to crime - of any sort.?

in my UK local area it would appear that alot of crime is being carried out by those of a certain religion and\or nationality. Although those from certain former Sovbloc countries appear to be catching up with them.
But then that could all be an impression gained from the reporting in the local press.

is it because they are having to live closer to the edge, due to religion or skin colour as the only means of getting on in life.? They have become "risk takers" who cross the line and get caught.

should I suppose the black west indian guy living 2 doors down, working as a painting contractor, is breaking the law because he does most of his work in London.? Or because of his skin colour.?
Not necessarily the colour of their skin, but a combination of their origin, culture and mindset though as you say it is not unusual to see a few rise above it with a bit common sense, determination and much improved mindset.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 9:15 am
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Default Re: Does austerity lead to crime?

Originally Posted by The Oddities
I think that this time because the British leaders, politicians, have been PROVED to be committing financial offences that the average person would be put away for, it gives permission for others to follow suit. Whether this is in fact or in the mind is immaterial it is the mindset that counts. If some politician is illegally and without fear of prosecution having his moat cleared at public expense will you, as a family man struggling to pay bills and keep a roof over your heads worry overly if a fell off the back of a lorry or something similar, windfall occurs. I think not.

Graham
Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
I entirely agree with Dominos post, but as you say it would be better if those at the top of the pile set a better example.
It would appear that shortly Baroness Uddin will be finishing her period of suspension from the House of Lords for fiddling her expenses.
However despite living in a large Housing Authority house at subsidised rent, owns a flat in Kent, husband has a huge designer property in Bangladesh, she hasn't paid back a penny of the £125,000 she gained from her fraud. It being said she cannot afford to pay it back and will be paying it in instalments from the £300\diem she will get for attending the house. (so Joe Public will be paying it for her)
It would appear that a committee led (?) by Baroness Manningham-Buller (her of MI5 fame) is insisting she remains banned until the money is paid.

But this does open up other questions as to why she is, I believe, the only one not formally charged with a criminal offence. Is that because of her colour, sex, religion, or because she is really a good alround egg who just got caught out.?

So, does that mean there will be a spate of people not paying fines and restitution because this woman is allowed to get away with it.?
Or will they just fiddle their expenses because that isnt really a crime .?
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 9:18 am
  #48  
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Default Re: Does austerity lead to crime?

Originally Posted by The Oddities
I think that this time because the British leaders, politicians, have been PROVED to be committing financial offences that the average person would be put away for, it gives permission for others to follow suit. Whether this is in fact or in the mind is immaterial it is the mindset that counts. If some politician is illegally and without fear of prosecution having his moat cleared at public expense will you, as a family man struggling to pay bills and keep a roof over your heads worry overly if a fell off the back of a lorry or something similar, windfall occurs. I think not.

Graham
Yeah, well said. Not just MPs, remember, but both GB and Cameron were damn quick to pay back cash they had taken, that they knew damn well they weren't entitled to! That's two prime ministers FFS.

This is exactly what I have in mind when I say, how is it that we are thieves if we steal less than the Prime Minister? Who is not just a self admitted benefit thief (after all, that's what they are quick to call anyone like us that might take State money that we were not entitled to) but also a blatant hypocrite.

I am amazed that more people don't start screaming about the mockery this makes of us.

We are the ones suffering, losing our homes and our pensions, and what did we do that was so wrong? Were we taking stupid risks with the money? Were we loading our pockets with fraudulent expenses?

We were always having the great and good held up in front of us as an example to us all, and what a mockery that was!
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 9:20 am
  #49  
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Default Re: Does austerity lead to crime?

Originally Posted by Domino
It would appear that shortly Baroness Uddin will be finishing her period of suspension from the House of Lords for fiddling her expenses.
However despite living in a large Housing Authority house at subsidised rent, owns a flat in Kent, husband has a huge designer property in Bangladesh, she hasn't paid back a penny of the £125,000 she gained from her fraud. It being said she cannot afford to pay it back and will be paying it in instalments from the £300\diem she will get for attending the house. (so Joe Public will be paying it for her)
It would appear that a committee led (?) by Baroness Manningham-Buller (her of MI5 fame) is insisting she remains banned until the money is paid.

But this does open up other questions as to why she is, I believe, the only one not formally charged with a criminal offence. Is that because of her colour, sex, religion, or because she is really a good alround egg who just got caught out.?

So, does that mean there will be a spate of people not paying fines and restitution because this woman is allowed to get away with it.?
Or will they just fiddle their expenses because that isnt really a crime .?
300 pounds a day for being an unrepentant thief? If I were a drug dealer, they would confiscate my assets. Why the hell isn't this bitch having her goods siezed to pay the state back, instead of being allowed back onto the gravy train to be once again hosed down with public money?
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 9:22 am
  #50  
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Default Re: Does austerity lead to crime?

I am yet to meet a person who has not tried to be "creative" with regards to their tax returns... not tried to get as much as they can back from "the man"... and I honestly cannot see any difference between them and the MP's doing what they did, yet its some of these people who complain and moan the loudest.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 9:22 am
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Default Re: Does austerity lead to crime?

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
Not necessarily the colour of their skin, but a combination of their origin, culture and mindset though as you say it is not unusual to see a few rise above it with a bit common sense, determination and much improved mindset.
so, as we are in Spain.....
are Brit Expats seen by the Spanish we (generally) live cheek by jowl with as being wealthy people who live off massive pensions or as lager swilling louts who cannot speak the language or speak it worse than the Policeman in 'Ello 'Ello.?
Or are we all English criminals hiding from the UK police.?
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 9:23 am
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Default Re: Does austerity lead to crime?

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
I am yet to meet a person who has not tried to be "creative" with regards to their tax returns... not tried to get as much as they can back from "the man"... and I honestly cannot see any difference between them and the MP's doing what they did, yet its some of these people who complain and moan the loudest.
you need to understand the difference between Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion, or just leave it all to your accountant.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 9:25 am
  #53  
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Default Re: Does austerity lead to crime?

Originally Posted by Domino
you need to understand the difference between Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion, or just leave it all to your accountant.
Same difference, bottom line is that you are robbing the economy of much needed taxes, you are essentially adding to the problem and as such have absolutely no right to pass judgement on anything to do with the economy.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 9:32 am
  #54  
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Default Re: Does austerity lead to crime?

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
Same difference, bottom line is that you are robbing the economy of much needed taxes, you are essentially adding to the problem and as such have absolutely no right to pass judgement on anything to do with the economy.
No, to be fair, tax avoidance is deducting legitimate expenses from you takings.

Tax evasion is illegal, and that IS on a par with what the MPs were doing.

However, there is a difference between one of us cheating the state, and an MP doing it. MPs are in a position of trust, and the penalties for that should be more severe.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 9:33 am
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Default Re: Does austerity lead to crime?

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
I have said it dozens of times, this recession has hit certain people, certain trades and certain industries hard....
...and thankfully there are many of us they have been virtually untouched by it all. I've just picked up a new car, and it ain't cheap, but I've had to wait months for it, seemingly they are selling everything they can produce. Most of the main producers have waiting lists, there are lots with money to spend. There are luxury seaside apartments near us, they are all sold off plan, long before they are due to be finished, it's a buyers market, lots of deals to be had. There are loads of pubs/restaurants all doing deals, two eat, pay for one, children eat free etc, plenty selling cut price beers, for some of us it's not been too bad. But then, we experienced the previous recessions and suffered then along with everyone else.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 9:38 am
  #56  
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Default Re: Does austerity lead to crime?

Originally Posted by Unmutual
No....but I don't think the UK figures are that different.

Twelve per cent of London’s men are black. But 54 per cent of the street crimes committed by men in London, along with 46 per cent of the knife crimes and more than half of the gun crimes, are thought by the Metropolitan Police to have been committed by black men.

Source HERE!
I'm surprised those figures are even available. Many years ago, when the Greater Manchester Police produced similar figures, the police authority censured the GMP and then censored the production of any future figures that show offenders ethnicity.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 9:41 am
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Default Re: Does austerity lead to crime?

Originally Posted by agoreira
...and thankfully there are many of us they have been virtually untouched by it all. I've just picked up a new car, and it ain't cheap, but I've had to wait months for it, seemingly they are selling everything they can produce. Most of the main producers have waiting lists, there are lots with money to spend. There are luxury seaside apartments near us, they are all sold off plan, long before they are due to be finished, it's a buyers market, lots of deals to be had. There are loads of pubs/restaurants all doing deals, two eat, pay for one, children eat free etc, plenty selling cut price beers, for some of us it's not been too bad. But then, we experienced the previous recessions and suffered then along with everyone else.
My OH is in the same industry as you.... all I ever hear are stories about how its on its knees (the industry not the OH) yet only last sunday, a sunday in November, they took £6000... someone somewhere has money and I can tell you now, its not all rich people or multi millionaires or the "1%"... its people in trades and professions that have not been hit hard, or at all in many cases.
I remember the Big One very well, we had bailiffs storming into the house and taking everything we owned... now I know thats happening in many areas but not like then, it was hell for many and I can honestly say that if back then had been now, we would not be able to get onto Facebook or Twitter to incite riots... we would have sold the phones to make some money and to stop us having to pay for credit...
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 9:43 am
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Default Re: Does austerity lead to crime?

Originally Posted by Domino
so, as we are in Spain.....
are Brit Expats seen by the Spanish we (generally) live cheek by jowl with as being wealthy people who live off massive pensions or as lager swilling louts who cannot speak the language or speak it worse than the Policeman in 'Ello 'Ello.?
I think expats are often seen as being "minted", that's why maybe this two tier pricing that was mentioned could arise. Builders will always try it on, charge what they think the market might stand, it wouldn't surprise me if a quote given to a Brit in his posh villa was quite different to that given to a local in a humble village house. That happens everywhere, it's not just a Spanish thing. You get a quote here in UK for double glazing, you say it's too expensive, you're going elsewhere, suddenly the price drops a grand or so, they'll all try it on. Problem is lots of Brits in Spain don't feel comfortable or capable of negotiating in Spanish.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 10:05 am
  #59  
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Default Re: Does austerity lead to crime?

Originally Posted by Domino
so, as we are in Spain.....
are Brit Expats seen by the Spanish we (generally) live cheek by jowl with as being wealthy people who live off massive pensions or as lager swilling louts who cannot speak the language or speak it worse than the Policeman in 'Ello 'Ello.?
Or are we all English criminals hiding from the UK police.?
I've generally found them to speak as they find, however as everywhere there no doubt are some with fixed opinions having only seen one side of the fence.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 10:19 am
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Default Re: Does austerity lead to crime?

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
Not necessarily the colour of their skin, but a combination of their origin, culture and mindset though as you say it is not unusual to see a few rise above it with a bit common sense, determination and much improved mindset.
the term "local boy makes good" (or similar) is surely a broad brush, it has nothing to do with colour or race.

our parents brought us up to, hopefully, do better with our lives than they did. They were products of the Great War, fought for their country in the Second War, and wanted for us all to do well for ourselves. They gave up many things to help us in this, but not their freedom having been put into jail.

A neighbouring family, what would today be called "disfunctional", with wife beating, drunken father, went on to produce an accountant and a senior manager at Midland Bank. No mean feat considering the deck of cards they were playing with.

I just hope my parents don't feel let down when the time comes to give them the end of term report.
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