denouncements

Old Mar 12th 2013, 7:30 am
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Default denouncements

Just out of interest, what is a denouncement, when would one apply for one, how would one go about applying for one, and what affect, if any, does it have on the person (or company) who is denounced?
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Old Mar 12th 2013, 7:46 am
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Default Re: denouncements

Originally Posted by mikeglover View Post
Just out of interest, what is a denouncement, when would one apply for one, how would one go about applying for one, and what affect, if any, does it have on the person (or company) who is denounced?
a denuncia is essentially a report to the police about the committal of a crime

the police take the report, then investigate it & depending on the results of the investigation there could be court proceedings
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Old Mar 12th 2013, 7:57 am
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and IIRC they cannot be anonymous.

although as there are many remnants of the old police state here in Spain ...........
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Old Mar 12th 2013, 8:03 am
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Default Re: denouncements

Originally Posted by lynnxa View Post
a denuncia is essentially a report to the police about the committal of a crime

the police take the report, then investigate it & depending on the results of the investigation there could be court proceedings
I don't think they are just for 'crimes' a denuncia is for any 'complaint'.
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Old Mar 12th 2013, 8:39 am
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Default Re: denouncements

Originally Posted by snikpoh View Post
I don't think they are just for 'crimes' a denuncia is for any 'complaint'.
Maybe it's to do with possible misunderstanding of the word "denunciar" which technically means to report a crime or to report something illegal. So you could 'report' someone,say, to Hacienda, if you suspect they are tax/benefit cheats.
However, no crime may have been committed.
All businesses must by law have the book of "hojas de reclamacion" (complaints book) which are a form of consumer protection. They are carbonised & in triplicate, one copy of which goes to the relevant authorities.

We asked a barman once for the book because he refused to serve us an Irish whiskey, complaining he was too busy, which wasn't true!
He became very apologetic, but we didn't press the matter. However, he got the message.

I'm sure there are wiser words of wisdom that others can enlighten Mikeglover with.
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Old Mar 12th 2013, 8:48 am
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Default Re: denouncements

the reason thta i ask is that when we bought our property, we gave the agent the 7% stamp duty to pay to the tax office. he told us he had paid it but he didnt. (he gave us a receipt to say that he had). He has now gone bust and we have to pay the (sunstantial amount) tax/stamp duty. Our assessor says that he has broke the law (a criminal act called “apropiación indebida”.) and can go to prison (if the sentence is less than 2 years, he can avoid jail only by paying us what we lost) but we have to use a solicitor to do it at a cost of around 3000 eu. Before we consider going down this route, we would very much welcome any helpfull suggestions. Please, no more tellings off for getting ourselves into this mess, we've been saying that to ourselves 24/7 since we found out. Ta
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Old Mar 12th 2013, 9:39 am
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Default Re: denouncements

Like a lot of things here, you need to assess whether a denuncia and subsequent court is the wisest tactic.

In the best case, he ends up paying everything including your costs on top. But in too many situations the defendant is already legally insolvent, so you end up paying not only the original stamp duty (again), plus the costs of taking the matter to court - likely to be equal or more than the stamp duty by the time you're done. Sure, he might spend some time in jail, but that still won't pay your bills.

Only a proper abogado can help you, so you'll end up paying just to find out whether it's viable or not. Don't ask him to take the matter to court, ask him to assess it first before going headlong into it.

And be sure to get an Abogado that has absolutely no association to the defendant whatsoever (e.g., no colleagues or family or distant relatives who know or have ever associated with the defendant or the defendant's family). Blood is thicker than water. We have some friends who made that mistake. Cost them dearly.

Last edited by amideislas; Mar 12th 2013 at 9:44 am.
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Old Mar 12th 2013, 11:02 am
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Default Re: denouncements

The real problem, as I see it, is that if he was operating as autonomo then he may well have declared himself bankrupt. In this case, any legal action will have no effect.

If he was acting through a company, then the problem is that this company might have gone 'bust' so again, any action will be futile as there might be no funds to claim against.

I'm sorry to say that I suspect there is nothing you can do short of tracking him down.
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Old Mar 12th 2013, 12:10 pm
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Default Re: denouncements

Originally Posted by mikeglover View Post
the reason thta i ask is that when we bought our property, we gave the agent the 7% stamp duty to pay to the tax office. he told us he had paid it but he didnt. (he gave us a receipt to say that he had). He has now gone bust and we have to pay the (sunstantial amount) tax/stamp duty. Our assessor says that he has broke the law (a criminal act called “apropiación indebida”.) and can go to prison (if the sentence is less than 2 years, he can avoid jail only by paying us what we lost) but we have to use a solicitor to do it at a cost of around 3000 eu. Before we consider going down this route, we would very much welcome any helpfull suggestions. Please, no more tellings off for getting ourselves into this mess, we've been saying that to ourselves 24/7 since we found out. Ta
What a dreadful position to be in. Does the receipt mean nothing? I am inclined to hold onto things such as receipts as proof of payment and I would have thought that this should mean that you do not have to pay again.

Why on earth would anyone tell you off for getting yourself in this mess when you acted sensibly and paid the dues that you knew you had to, you acted in good faith.

I hope that this is resolved satisfactorily for you and that it does not end up costing you as much as you fear.

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Old Mar 12th 2013, 3:14 pm
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Default Re: denouncements

if he was operating fully legally then he may have had an Indemnity Insurance, but considering the way people come to Spain as a carpenter and set themselves up as a major builder or any other variation you may care to think of, it is highly unlikely.

especially if he has done a bunk with your hard earned, and you will not be the only one


although you may be able to get some others to join with you in some sort of action it may well be useless if he has left Spain or is living in penury in the campo.

I still havent forgiven the tenant who did a bunk owing me well over 4 months rent and left the house in such a state it cost me £4k+ to make right.

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Old Mar 13th 2013, 12:36 pm
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Default Re: denouncements

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Like a lot of things here, you need to assess whether a denuncia and subsequent court is the wisest tactic.

In the best case, he ends up paying everything including your costs on top. But in too many situations the defendant is already legally insolvent, so you end up paying not only the original stamp duty (again), plus the costs of taking the matter to court - likely to be equal or more than the stamp duty by the time you're done. Sure, he might spend some time in jail, but that still won't pay your bills.

Only a proper abogado can help you, so you'll end up paying just to find out whether it's viable or not. Don't ask him to take the matter to court, ask him to assess it first before going headlong into it.

And be sure to get an Abogado that has absolutely no association to the defendant whatsoever (e.g., no colleagues or family or distant relatives who know or have ever associated with the defendant or the defendant's family). Blood is thicker than water. We have some friends who made that mistake. Cost them dearly.


Very good advice - horrible mess to be in
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Old May 11th 2013, 11:27 pm
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Default Re: denouncements

Hi there , I'm sorry I don't know how to write a post on here (I'm thick still new to me is this) I was looking for some advice . I rented a property , but no fault of my own I had to come back to uk as family member only had few months to live so packed up my things and told the agent I was going she looked round the place and said all was good. Then to my surprise I get a nasty email stating that the landlord wants 350 euro for damages????? And that she is going to denounce me unless I give her monies , I've explained she still has my 900 euro deposit and she can keep for damages ??? I left that place like a palace . And no damages now she plaguing me my mum is dying and she wants this 350 euro the thing is I will be coming back to Spain my worry is can she denounce me for this I have a reicept for the deposit signed by her and the agent and she said it doesn't count cos she had to pay agent with it! I will be coming back to Spain when my mum has gone... When I get back into the country will they arrest me at the airport ????? Please any advice

Last edited by Mrsluton1; May 11th 2013 at 11:29 pm. Reason: It didn't make sense
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Old May 12th 2013, 5:27 am
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Default Re: denouncements

Originally Posted by Mrsluton1 View Post
Hi there , I'm sorry I don't know how to write a post on here (I'm thick still new to me is this) I was looking for some advice . I rented a property , but no fault of my own I had to come back to uk as family member only had few months to live so packed up my things and told the agent I was going she looked round the place and said all was good. Then to my surprise I get a nasty email stating that the landlord wants 350 euro for damages????? And that she is going to denounce me unless I give her monies , I've explained she still has my 900 euro deposit and she can keep for damages ??? I left that place like a palace . And no damages now she plaguing me my mum is dying and she wants this 350 euro the thing is I will be coming back to Spain my worry is can she denounce me for this I have a reicept for the deposit signed by her and the agent and she said it doesn't count cos she had to pay agent with it! I will be coming back to Spain when my mum has gone... When I get back into the country will they arrest me at the airport ????? Please any advice
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Old May 12th 2013, 6:41 pm
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Default Re: denouncements

Originally Posted by Mrsluton1 View Post
Hi there , I'm sorry I don't know how to write a post on here (I'm thick still new to me is this) I was looking for some advice . I rented a property , but no fault of my own I had to come back to uk as family member only had few months to live so packed up my things and told the agent I was going she looked round the place and said all was good. Then to my surprise I get a nasty email stating that the landlord wants 350 euro for damages????? And that she is going to denounce me unless I give her monies , I've explained she still has my 900 euro deposit and she can keep for damages ??? I left that place like a palace . And no damages now she plaguing me my mum is dying and she wants this 350 euro the thing is I will be coming back to Spain my worry is can she denounce me for this I have a reicept for the deposit signed by her and the agent and she said it doesn't count cos she had to pay agent with it! I will be coming back to Spain when my mum has gone... When I get back into the country will they arrest me at the airport ????? Please any advice
awful situation to be in....

unfortunately it's not that unusual for owners to find 'damage' which eats up the deposit you've paid - so I'm not that surprised this has happened

however - I wouldn't worry too much - you just tell the owner that if she denounces you for the 350€, you'll denounce her over the deposit - she is required by law to keep that deposit available & not spend it nor pay it to anyone

the deposit is FOR paying for any damages that might occur - & any utility bills which might not have been paid before the tenant moves out - it is absolutely NOT for paying agent fees - so although you might have a bit of a battle getting it back - & it's unlikely that you will - it's equally unlikely that you'd owe another 350€ on top

and I really doubt they'd arrest you at the airport over 350€ in any case....
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Old May 12th 2013, 7:02 pm
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Default Re: denouncements

Originally Posted by snikpoh View Post
I don't think they are just for 'crimes' a denuncia is for any 'complaint'.
My next door neighbour has denounced the company who put in her marble frontage because it is rubbish.

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