Could it happen here?
 

I think by now most people will have seen the shocking scenes in Athens,and other Greek cities,with likely more to follow.
Does anyone think similar public disorder or riots could occur here in Spain or maybe Portugal, as many political commentators are beginning to suggest, if the economic situation doesn't improve, more people lose their jobs and drastic action has to be taken to halt the slide?

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Yes it could happen here.

There have been plenty of demos, about a whole host of different situations.

And there are a lot of angry, disenfranchised young men out there.

As things worsen it does not take much for a demo to become a riot.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

The only way the economic situation can improve is if the Greeks stop spending so much money (more than they earn).
Greece also has a unique problem, which doesn't really occur in other Eurozone countries. This crisis started there when the new government "discovered" that the country's accounts had been falsified - that their financial position was much worse than the previous govt. had been telling people. Plus, it appears (from news reports) that a lot of the rioting has been the result of the communist party, which is quite active in Greece.
So the situation there is quite different from other european countries.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Yes it could happen in Spain. And it could happen in the UK as well.

The deficit in the UK and Spain is roughly at the same levels as Greece. Our economies are scr***d aswell.

Markets are all about confidence. I dont like the role of the ratings agencies. They talked down Greece's debt which led to them not being able to get any loans and hence they needed to be rescued. It seems to me that they picked on a small country, a little like a bully would do in a school yard.

They could just as easily as picked on the UK or Spain but they didnt dare to.

These ratings agencies have no credibility in my eyes. Lehmans was rated as ultra safe, just before it went bust. And these agencies did not predict any of the crisis over the past 3 years. They are just tools to safegard Anglo-American capitalism as they just pick on the economies that are not their own. :thumbdown:

Re: Could it happen here?
 

A very wise old neighbour of mine, said that when the Spanish government give something for nothing then it is time to worry.

he was referring to the extra 6 month dole payment to the unemployed who had finished their entitlement. They have been given 400 odd euros a month-

He said that they must be very worried, not for the welfare of the unemployed involved, because it has never bothered them before, but for the consequences that might arise with so many unemployed due to the crisis. ie Demos and riots and other forms of protest.

Could there be something in his theory?

And if things continue to worsen will this little bit of help make a difference to the way the Spanish poeple feel.?

I dont know the answer.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

altho the UK is in the same sort of mess as Greece, Spain etc, it has a better and more stable financial foundation and is in a much better position to rectify the problem. So altho I think it may have to squeeze its people a bit tightly, I think the UK will not be in the same turmoil or downward spiral

Jo xxx

Re: Could it happen here?
 

I agree with Jo.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

I think that squeeze might be a bit tighter than you suggest, but as yet none of the parties in this election is really telling us how they will go about clawing these huge amounts of money back. I suspect we will be in for a few unpleasant surprises once it's decided who will be in control. :(

Re: Could it happen here?
 

I think here is Spain the people will be of a similar mind set as the rioters in Greece sadly, so I suspect they'll be some demonstrating and stamping of feet. Arent they about to put the IVA tax thing up here???

Maybe if there wasnt so much tax evasion in Spain - and in Greece, this situation wouldnt have arisen in such proportions. That is something that needs addressing

Jo xxx

Re: Could it happen here?
 

It has nothing to do with tax evasion and everything to do with over leveraging!

That's what the UK, US and the PIIGS (dreaded term!) have been doing. Continued borrowing against possible future growth.

A bit like if I said to the bank "My house is worth 200k now, but it will be work 1 million in 10 years time, so you give me the 800k now and I'll pay you 2% a year interest on it". Problem is if your house is still worth £200k in 10 years time, both you AND the bank go bust!

The very economic system is under threat and we could see a re-shaping of the world order. I've been working with a lot of Chinese clients recently and I am very impressed ;)

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Just hope Spain won't have to put IVA to 23% and increase alcohol by 10% like Greece:eek:

Re: Could it happen here?
 

You can kiss those cheap holidays in Greece goodbye..............that's going to have a dramatic effect on tourism and in turn the economy as well.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Not sure about that , we are all trading with euros so if things get expensive in Greece people will import from cheaper euro zone countries ,VAT increases is the only way things may get very expensive,then a crazy hike say to 30% will create a massive black market (much bigger than the existing one!) the only thing you cant import is property so that may take a bigger hiding , like Spain is now.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Agreed.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

The trouble is that if these black markets keep growing (and I've no doubt they will), its not only going to affect any recovery, but its going to turn the whole lot inside out and upside down!!!! Anarchy! :blink::blink: In fact thats what the EU/governements need to think about. Not just what to do about it all, but what will happen if they do what they plan. They never seem to think things thru to their conclusion - on anything!!

Jo xxx

Re: Could it happen here?
 

One simple thing is to monitor the retailers. There are plenty of shops that don't ring up the purchases and add purchases up on a calculator!! I now insist for a register receipt for all purchases. It wouldn't be a stretch to clamp down on them.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Most retailers dont set out to be crooked but are forced to bend the rules purely to survive , its similar to employee`s who pretend to be busy to keep their jobs when theres nothing to do, civil servants excell at this!

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Historically, we know it couldn't happen in the UK, the closest we came was a peaceful hunger march from Jarrow.

Historically, the people in Spain are more respectful (with good reason) of their government.

Historically, it's best not to delve into the history of the biggest country in the EU.

I read some clever statistics once on a country's stability based on unemployment rates. I remember 25% indicating street riots and 45% revolution and anarchy.

I think the Internet will save us, we are better informed than before it was invented.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

It was always going to be on the cards for Greece, I lived and worked out there when I was a nipper for some very wealthy clients and their son was on Military Service and was shot outside the barracks while on duty. The Greeks are a pretty fiery bunch, they are not Spaniards, not of the same explosive but passionate stock... hatred runs deep in their psyche and grudges are carried for years. An example of this is the way the Greeks look on the Turks, hate doesn't describe it, but you look at the way the Spanish just wanted to move on and leave the hell of the Franco years behind them.

The violence just wont happen in Spain, would the crash? I'm sure there is a possibility but I have a suspicion that many in Brussels are happy this has happened, it sends a very clear signal to the people who still consider Turkey a likely candidate for inclusion. I suspect greater politics are being played here.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

How about:

1355 - St. Scholastica riot, (Oxford, England)
1517 - Evil May Day, (London, England)
1607 - Midlands Uprising, (Northamptonshire/Warwickshire/Leicestershire, England)
1668 - Messenger riots, (London, England) "Bawdy house Riots."
1675 - Weavers riot, (London, England)

Then we get onto:

18th Century Riots
19th Century Riots
20th Century Riots


2000 - English football fans riot in Charleroi, Belgium[citation needed]
2000 - Riots between English and Turkish football fans break out in Copenhagen, Denmark after the final of UEFA Euro 2000, [3]
2001 - Oldham Riots, May 2001, (Oldham, Greater Manchester, England)
2001 - Harehills riot Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
2001 - Bradford Riot, July 2001, (Bradford, West Yorkshire, England)
2001 - Holy Cross dispute, Summer 2001, (Belfast, Northern Ireland)
2003 - Caia Park Riots, Wrexham, Wales
2005 - Worst riot seen in Ireland after Orange Order Parade was banned from marching through a Catholic area, (Belfast, Northern Ireland)
2005 - Reading festival riot, approximately 150000 music fans rioted for 3 nights just for the fun of it (England)
2005 - 2005 Birmingham race riots in Lozells, Birmingham, United Kingdom.
2006 - 2006 Dublin riots, Feb. 25, Dublin, Ireland
2006 - Download Festival Riots, Donnington, UK
2007 - Riots in London, United Kingdom at the Notting Hill Carnival.

That's just some of them.

Jim

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Strange,non stop action up to 2007,then 3 years peace and quiet.
Maybe now nearly everyone has internet and broadband they can all get it out of their systems on discussion forums and the like.
Rioting is probably too much like hard work for todays uk yobs.:huh:

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Christ, Jim, I can't answer that. Thank you for the information. Did you miss the poll tax riots?

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Or maybe we are just so brainwashed by the incumbent bunch of liars that we just believe we are all better off.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Don't think many ppl. are brainwashed judging by the widespread public opinions expressed over events of the last two years.
Probably too complacent more like or I'm allright jack.:zzz:
Real poverty and hard times hardly exist now, as they used to, despite the recession.
Most ppl.have nice cosy homes,a car on the drive,all mod cons and quite a few of what would have been regarded luxuries just a few year ago,plenty of supermarket food and booze in the fridge and the latest designer rags to wear.
Yes, more than a few of them have run up their credit cards and overstretched their resources because they either just don't worry or just don't care about debt so much these days.
I mean there always the social to fall back on,so they can always have a mini riot down there if they get a bit short.
Don't see Greek type riots happening in the UK,...at least not for a while yet,...just have to wait and see what the incoming shower have in store for us,..maybe that could change things.:blink:

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Riots will happen if middle class unemployment reaches 20% and people start losing their very expensive houses they've spent years climbing up the property ladder to afford.

Or if the government halves the amount paid in benefits.

Both possible...

Re: Could it happen here?
 

....but unlikely.
If it got to that stage half of Europe would already be in turmoil.
Doesn't bear thinking about.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Poll Tax riots, thats all I'm saying.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

No,... election night riots,...all over the country,...
What a shambles in the Mother of Democracies.
People all over the place unable to vote.:frown:

Re: Could it happen here?
 

They should have turned up earlier to vote then.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

I agree, David Dimbleby himself called the situation " 3rd world democracy", and was quite visibly angry !

Saying that people sould have turned up earlier doesn't quite cut it ! It take's no account of the lack of staff in the polling stations, nor of polling stations running out of ballot sheet's ! Nor does it factor in the people who were left of the electoral roll through no fault of their own !

Let's not forget, also, about the "bogus voters" appearing on electoral rolls in marginal seats, which are the subject of police investigations !

The situation is an outrage, and an absolute disgrace. In fact if these events had take place elsewhere in the world, the partisan, sensationilist, British media would be all over it !

These word's can't even begin to express how angry I am about this farce of an "election". Nor about how far this country has fallen in overall standards. It's actually an embarrasment to be British these day's.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

embarrasment ? What all your spelling mistakes? :confused: If you are not already, once you become time qualified you can take Spanish citizenship , problem over!

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Go **** yourself you small minded prick ! I have a right to my opinion, and your speliing is no better !

Pathetic little **** !

Re: Could it happen here?
 

You have noticed too. :rofl:

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Wonder if the Greeks are embarrased to be Greek now the world's financial systems have been upset by their government:rofl:

Strange those queues at the polling stations:confused: Turnout isn't all that much higher. Lot of them seemed to be students too. Said on TV that they may get around £750 each for a yuman rights breach. If they have another election this year (which is looking possible) half the country will turn up at 9.45!

Re: Could it happen here?
 

With all this negativity about the world's financial markets, is there any country in the world (or even Europe) whose economy HASN'T suffered in the 'global recession'? Whose economy is strong, stable, reliable and DOESN'T seem likely to follow the current trend?

If so, do they need any IT staff?!?!?!?! :rofl: We'll pack our bags and move there tomorrow :thumbsup:

P.S. They also need to have a lower cost of living than the UK ;-)

Re: Could it happen here?
 

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Even Japan has been pumping money in, Australia has been mentioned, I don't think anywhere will be totally unaffected.

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Yes, China!!!

Re: Could it happen here?
 

Typo, knobhead !:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Added you to the troll pen !

Re: Could it happen here?
 

They had from 7 am until 10 PM to vote.... that is 15 hours. Now forgive me if I am not quite seeing the problem here but in 15 hours you could fly to bloody America and back!