Originally Posted by CAROL TAFF (Post 8346761)

IMHO Jon is right in stating the EUC problem is best addressed as three separate although connected issues.

Appeals Process

A note of caution. If the EUC is declared illegal, who will organise and pay for the work needed to ensure that the CE area, external to the Inter-Community, private plots/villas and golf courses, does not fall into total dereliction? Fadesa hasn't the money, and the Town Hall hasn't the will. And for certain ConfiServe and L & G are not going to do it for nothing. Although I have some sympathy with John & Kath's view that we should not support an illegal organization, it might be more pragmatic in this instance to keep the EUC functioning, as that should ensure that CE is kept looking good overall.

Bank Guarantees

It seems to me that the Bank Guarantees are there to ensure that the developer meets his obligation to provide what was promised in the Planning Agreement. I feel that other agency involvement should be confined to pressing the Town Hall to do its job. SL's addressing of the issue with the prospective opposition's mayoral candidate is highly appropriate, especially as I believe that local council elections are imminent. What concerns me is that the Ayamonte mayor stands on both sides of the fence. Thus, any pressure from the EUC is negated. I note that the Calahunda EUC states that the EUC President must be an owner, and that the Town Hall is limited to providing one non-owning observer with the right to speak, but not vote. Do the official Spanish Horizontal Property statutes also specify this? I feel that the EUC would be better served if the mayor was only given observer status on the EUC Board and a new President elected, who owns and permanently lives at CE, and is fluent in both Spanish and English. (Is that too much to ask?)

MF Payment to the EUC

First of all, its not just MF. Albatross Golf, Sun and Sea, and other developers have land, together with completed properties at CE. For these not to pay their EUC dues would result in a considerable increase (possibly four-fold) in the EUC bills of those paying, at least in the short term. So we should not be hoping that they do not pay, as MF's vote and presence on the Board is a small price to pay for their full contribution. In practice, I suspect they will all pay as otherwise there will have an immediate 20% increase in the amount owed. Its almost 20th Feb, so we will soon see. I feel that there will be no problem in excluding any non-payers. Nevertheless, Administrator pursuit of non-payers to the full legal extent will be is essential.

Taff

-A single voice represents a large number of members.

- It is essential that the Association has representation at the Meetings. Therefore, in this Association should join the president of Community of Property Owner and Intercommunity, plot owners and developers. If MF has a 20%, the Association must have more than this.

- How it is possible to bring together all the owners of housings, plots and developers?. It's really complicated that the Association has members.

- If the Association does not represent a percentage share of the EUC, this will be similar to the forum!. It will not have power.

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer (Post 8346905)

Hi!!.

I will try to answer everyone.

• John & Kath, you should appeal when exists a specific resolution. If you have paid, it makes little sense an appeal. Unless you ask for your money back due to the (probable, in light of their past history) non-payment of MF and the mayor's refusal to execute the 6M-euros guarantee?You say "I want to make the Mayor very aware that" we "are very dissatified with the way I've done things and perhaps his way is not the best way". I think you know the Mayor at the last meeting and you must have a personal opinion about him. I only know that the opposition of all the English community was very clear.

This could be expressed via the CE Owners Group, I would think.

• John & Kath and Yes We Can, are convinced of forming a Residents Association, (although I think it's better a Neighbourhood or Owner Association, I do not know if the same thing to you what you want to refer). I'm glad that both you may have as clear ideas.

I think they refer to Arthur's CE Owners Group.

• Jon-Bxl, the "Residents Association" or as I said, "neighbours" or “owners” can never replace the EUC, or its Board. The EUC must necessarily exist. However the EUC can exist together with an association Neighbourhood Association (or Residents Association), which is voluntary.

Why or how, then, did Isla Canela get rid of theirs?

• Jon-Bxl, I agree that the month of July is near. Unfortunately the Town Hall, in particular the Mayor, is the only one can convert into cash the bank guarantee. Much of the political opposition to the Mayor requested the execution of the guarantee. As you know, the Mayor refused. I do not know his reasons, I just know this decision is against to the EUC.

Can the Junta de Andalucia request this from the mayor?

• Jon-Bxl, the Board´s members only can expel if the majority EUC´s members vote a favour. You think that MF has a 20% votes. We need a 25% of the total shares in order to apply to the president of the board to call extraordinary meeting.

According to the minutes of the AGM December 2008 (Acta Constitutiva) MF have "24,2101 de las cuotas de participación"

• MikeJ, thanks for clarifying my position. Indeed, it is registered EUC. (MikeJ, you win). As I tried to explain, in the Registry is listed as President and Secretary, different persons that who it sits on the Board.

Who is Pérez Pérez?
¡Qué Carramba! How does this effect quorum?

• MikeJ, you said –as first way-: “Challenge in the courts the legality of the original set-up of the EUC (go for it SL!) on the basis that MF had not substantively completed the works and therefore the Town Hall acted illegally in allowing the EUC to be set up.”. The Town Hall may permit constituted the EUC, although MF has not completed the work. That is legal. However, what it was done, how it was done, I think it is entirely legal.Do you mean illegal? Personally no one told me that it had adopted a Statutes.Has this topic been raised at the AGM? Although it is legal to constitute a EUC before receiving, it is illegal to operate it without the Town Hall has over the project.Sorry S-L, please clarify these last two points? You can not keep what is not received by the Town Hall.Please, to whom do you refer "You"?

• In your second way, MikeJ said: “One factor which could swing things our way is if MF are disbarred through non-payment then the quorom may not be reached and new elections might have to be called”. Although MF not paid, they may be on the Board. It is completely legal.

• CAROL TAFF said “Do the official Spanish Horizontal Property statutes also specify this? I feel that the EUC would be better served if the mayor was only given observer status on the EUC Board and a new President elected, who owns and permanently lives at CE, and is fluent in both Spanish and English. (Is that too much to ask?)”. Spanish Horizontal Property Law is use is not used for the EUC. You say too, “I feel that there will be no problem in excluding any non-payers. Nevertheless, Administrator pursuit of non-payers to the full legal extent will be is essential”. The Law does not exclude non-payers to vote. I personally think it can not be excluded. If your neighbour does not pay the EUC, your Community can not be excluded from voting.

Do the co-efficients in total of a community include the co-efficients of properties owned previously by MF, but are owned now by the banks? In other words, is MF's co-efficient(cuota de participación) at the AGM now reduced?

• John & Kath: We have different editions of books. My book is the 20th edition.

• To all those who consider that the Mayor listen to CE for the upcoming elections, my personal opinion is that, so far, for him doesn’t exist CE (or it is a bit important).

• In my opinion:

This appears to be a shared theme.It is already complicated to know who are the members of CE!

• Thanks to A. B.C. for his effort and initiative.

Originally Posted by Carol&John (Post 8347156)

OMG, it's just as well that I'm reading War&Peace now instead of at bedtime!
(¡jolín! Guerra y Paz);)

S_L, thank you for your patience to go through so much of this time and time again!

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer (Post 8346905)

Hi!!.

......................

• In your second way, MikeJ said: “One factor which could swing things our way is if MF are disbarred through non-payment then the quorom may not be reached and new elections might have to be called”. Although MF not paid, they may be on the Board. It is completely legal.

................

Originally Posted by A.B.C (Post 8344104)

Jon
I have been following your conversations with interest and thought you may be interested in the Costa Esuri Owners Group which has been set up. The general consensus seems to be that more voices are better than one.
Here is our opportunity to join together for property owners to speak with strength on the important issues which affect us all.

Arthur

Originally Posted by MikeJ (Post 8347439)

Bear with me a moment on the "quorum" and the disbarring of MF for non-payment.
I don't disagree with SL that MF can still be on the board but if they are in default they do not have a vote [and still owe the money and can be pursued for the debt]. However (and I base my arguement on English corporate law which may not be relevant - but as most of these commercial/civic laws have been harmonised by the EU then I would be surprised if it was not the same or similar in Spain)

a quorum is (in Spanish)
'Quórum' es un término jurídico que se refiere al número requerido de asistentes a una sesión de cualquier cuerpo de deliberación o parlamentario para que sea posible adoptar una decisión válida.
or in English
The minimum number of members required for a group to officially conduct business and to cast binding votes,

Therefore if non-paying members cannot vote - and there are insufficient (paying) members to fulfil a quorum (this number will depend on the EUC statutes) then the Board is unable to function. This means that it is unable to fulfil its legal obligations according to its statutes (and legal registration) and therefore a new Board has to be appointed. An extraordinary general meeting (EGM) must be called at the earliest opportunity.

I might have been smoking wacky-baccy - but this could be the basis of a legal challenge (if - and it's a big if - that's what we really want to happen).
I have a lingering sympathy for the view expressed by Carol Taff - if the EUC is disbanded or suspended then who looks after CE in the meantime? I have a suspicion that the EUC situation is cock-up not conspiracy viz the fact that L&G and Comfiserv have worked pro-bono for over a year doesn't suggest they are trying to rip us off or are in it for the money.

Originally Posted by MikeJ (Post 8347439)

Bear with me a moment on the "quorum" and the disbarring of MF for non-payment.
I don't disagree with SL that MF can still be on the board but if they are in default they do not have a vote [and still owe the money and can be pursued for the debt]. However (and I base my arguement on English corporate law which may not be relevant - but as most of these commercial/civic laws have been harmonised by the EU then I would be surprised if it was not the same or similar in Spain)

a quorum is (in Spanish)
'Quórum' es un término jurídico que se refiere al número requerido de asistentes a una sesión de cualquier cuerpo de deliberación o parlamentario para que sea posible adoptar una decisión válida.
or in English
The minimum number of members required for a group to officially conduct business and to cast binding votes,

Therefore if non-paying members cannot vote - and there are insufficient (paying) members to fulfil a quorum (this number will depend on the EUC statutes) then the Board is unable to function. This means that it is unable to fulfil its legal obligations according to its statutes (and legal registration) and therefore a new Board has to be appointed. An extraordinary general meeting (EGM) must be called at the earliest opportunity.

I might have been smoking wacky-baccy - but this could be the basis of a legal challenge (if - and it's a big if - that's what we really want to happen).
I have a lingering sympathy for the view expressed by Carol Taff - if the EUC is disbanded or suspended then who looks after CE in the meantime? I have a suspicion that the EUC situation is cock-up not conspiracy viz the fact that L&G and Comfiserv have worked pro-bono for over a year doesn't suggest they are trying to rip us off or are in it for the money.

Originally Posted by MikeJ (Post 8347439)

Bear with me a moment on the "quorum" and the disbarring of MF for non-payment.
I don't disagree with SL that MF can still be on the board but if they are in default they do not have a vote [and still owe the money and can be pursued for the debt]. However (and I base my arguement on English corporate law which may not be relevant - but as most of these commercial/civic laws have been harmonised by the EU then I would be surprised if it was not the same or similar in Spain)DOES ANYONE HAVE A COPY OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE EUC COSTA ESURI? Referring to the "estatutos", it says "Los derechos de sufragio activo o pasivo, no podrán ser ejercitados por los miembros que no se hallaren al corriente en el pago de las cuotas." Artículo 10º.-Derechos (K). Roughly translates as "The rights to vote or stand can not be exercised by members who are not up to date with the payment of fees." I can only read what I can see, and I can not interpret the Law if it says differently.

a quorum is (in Spanish)
'Quórum' es un término jurídico que se refiere al número requerido de asistentes a una sesión de cualquier cuerpo de deliberación o parlamentario para que sea posible adoptar una decisión válida.
or in English
The minimum number of members required for a group to officially conduct business and to cast binding votes,

Therefore if non-paying members cannot vote - and there are insufficient (paying) members to fulfil a quorum (this number will depend on the EUC statutes) then the Board is unable to function. This means that it is unable to fulfil its legal obligations according to its statutes (and legal registration) and therefore a new Board has to be appointed. An extraordinary general meeting (EGM) must be called at the earliest opportunity.Again, take another puff on your wacky-baccy, the estatutos say: ""En segunda convocatoria se quedará validamente constituida la Asamblea general cualquiera que sea el número de asistentes y cuota de participación que éstos representen." Artículo 23º.- Constitución (3) Roughly translates as: At the second calling, the meeting will be validly constituted no matter what may be the number of people attending or their corresponding co-efficients. (Please feel free to correct my translation.)

I might have been smoking wacky-baccy - but this could be the basis of a legal challenge (if - and it's a big if - that's what we really want to happen).
I have a lingering sympathy for the view expressed by Carol Taff - if the EUC is disbanded or suspended then who looks after CE in the meantime? I have a suspicion that the EUC situation is cock-up not conspiracy viz the fact that L&G and Comfiserv have worked pro-bono for over a year doesn't suggest they are trying to rip us off or are in it for the money.Very possible. Another note: the term of office of the consejo rector is 2 years, but they can be voted in again. So, December 2008 - December 2010. Not far away. Perhaps this year things might start to improve? Payments made, communication channels opened, meeting(s) attended by majority of representatives/owners, etc.

Originally Posted by Carol&John (Post 8348035)

a quorum is (in Spanish)
'Quórum' es un término jurídico que se refiere al número requerido de asistentes a una sesión de cualquier cuerpo de deliberación o parlamentario para que sea posible adoptar una decisión válida.
or in English
The minimum number of members required for a group to officially conduct business and to cast binding votes,

Therefore if non-paying members cannot vote - and there are insufficient (paying) members to fulfil a quorum (this number will depend on the EUC statutes) then the Board is unable to function. This means that it is unable to fulfil its legal obligations according to its statutes (and legal registration) and therefore a new Board has to be appointed. An extraordinary general meeting (EGM) must be called at the earliest opportunity.Again, take another puff on your wacky-baccy, the estatutos say: ""En segunda convocatoria se quedará validamente constituida la Asamblea general cualquiera que sea el número de asistentes y cuota de participación que éstos representen." Artículo 23º.- Constitución (3) Roughly translates as: At the second calling, the meeting will be validly constituted no matter what may be the number of people attending or their corresponding co-efficients. (Please feel free to correct my translation.)Hope it makes sense.

Originally Posted by Carol&John (Post 8351558)

I too need to ask L&G for a copy.
I am only guessing that this copy is the one. I haven't had it confirmed (S_L states she/he not being aware of any adoption of statutes - that's bizarre (not S_L, but the issue of the statutes), but the rules & regulations are similar to other EUC estatutos.
Regarding quorum of the board, I don't know really how it all works. I think it's written in one of the paragraphs about the election of the members of the consejo rector: Pres/V.P/Sec. Then there's the Treasurer, and then the 2 vocales. 5 in total. So, 3 would make quorum? One official has to be from the Ayuntamiento, and I think the Secretary doesn't have to own property on the EUC. Am I correct?
I can't understand why the Registro de entidades colaboradoras would have 2 different names on it for the EUC CE.:confused:

Originally Posted by Carol&John (Post 8351558)

I too need to ask L&G for a copy.
I am only guessing that this copy is the one. I haven't had it confirmed (S_L states she/he not being aware of any adoption of statutes - that's bizarre (not S_L, but the issue of the statutes), but the rules & regulations are similar to other EUC estatutos.
Regarding quorum of the board, I don't know really how it all works. I think it's written in one of the paragraphs about the election of the members of the consejo rector: Pres/V.P/Sec. Then there's the Treasurer, and then the 2 vocales. 5 in total. So, 3 would make quorum? One official has to be from the Ayuntamiento, and I think the Secretary doesn't have to own property on the EUC. Am I correct?
I can't understand why the Registro de entidades colaboradoras would have 2 different names on it for the EUC CE.:confused:

Originally Posted by John & Kath (Post 8351630)

What is the email address for L&G in English I used to have but can't find it now it's probably on the lappy that died.

Originally Posted by Mike and Carol (Post 8351680)

Eva.Mª Martínez López
E-mail Address(es):
[email protected]

Originally Posted by John & Kath (Post 8351752)

I intend to email on the 21st and ask if Fadesa have paid their dues.