keithwalters

Looking for a bit of advice here - I wonder if our friendly resident solicitors Marta & Javier would like to help out? I ought to add that I am not buying anywhere in the Huelva province, but as they don´t come here to advertise, that shouldn´t matter.

We´ve fallen in love with a resale property. Now I´ve bought off-plan twice in Spain before and feel confident about the process, but we really wanted THIS house so are forced down the resale route.

Firstly I would like to say "buyers´ market" my ar*e! (Well here anyway). We looked at numerous properties and the buyers are holding out for the asking price or as near as.

Secondly, we are being screwed over by the agents. Here the cheapest agent I could find is charging 1.5% to the seller and 1.5% TO THE BUYER. So even the purchaser has to pay an agent´s commission. Most of the other agents were 3%/3%.

Anyway, all of that aside, we have agreed to pay the agent 1.5% and the offer 5,000 euros below asking price was finally accepted.

We have to put down a "señal" of 1200 euros which of course we understand we would lose if we pulled out of the deal on a whim. However, before we cough up the money we want to put a few conditions down. For example:

SUBJECT TO a mortgage offer from the bank of my choice.

What other SUBJECT TOs would you make when putting down the reservation deposit?

(The property is 6 months old, 3 bed townhouse)

jdr

HERE is a bit of free legal advice ;-) from the handy info thread.

keithwalters

Thanks jdr - one or two things I would like to query there:

1 It says transfer tax is 6%. I always thought it was 7%. Have I always been wrong?

2 Plus valia tax - I was always under the impression that the seller ususally pays this (although it is negociable). However, the link says the buyer should pay. Is that normal?

keithwalters

Oh and I forgot to mention in the first post, the seller demands black money or will walk away from the deal. I didn´t see a single resale that was willing to declare the full purchase price. In other words I have to pay the black money or go away empty handed.

I HATE the way the sellers have all the control!!!!

expatnevergoingback

First of all Keith, I hope that when you get these issues sorted out, the buy goes smoothly and you get the house that you've fallen in love with.

I think though from the little that you have written, and your attitude to this house, it could just be possible that you have given the seller control of the situation.
It's apparent that the Spanish have a different attitude to the property market, largely due to the fact that Spain really isn't a free market developed economy like we have back in the UK.
I can only speak about my experiences on the CDS, where many locals behave as if its a sellers market, but with the hundreds of thousands of propertys standing empty and unsold for years on end, this is clearly not the case.
I have had a number of frustrations in my quest to buy a property, but if the seller refuses to take an offer, or insists on black money, I move on.
I will hopefully find someone who really wants/needs to sell, and there will be more of these people around after the ECB hikes rates twice more this year (according to euribor future projections) and especially after summer sales disappoint.
Anyway, best of luck with your purchase...

MnM

I absolutely agree with expatnevergoingback!

Black money is often discussed and demanded. But, things in Spain are changing at a very fast pace and if I were you I would definitely refuse "point blank" at any exchange of black money!

It is definitely a buyers market now, but only if the buyers stick to their guns and don't show the agent/buyer how interested they are in a property. We work with agents on a daily basis and they would sacrifice their soul for a sale this time of year. Things will pick up again in the summertime, but it most definitely will not be like it was 2 or 3 years ago.

Wishing you the best of luck!

keithwalters

Thanks guys - I have been looking around for a few months now. Made a short list of about a dozen houses, although one is clear favourite and listed at about 15000 cheaper than similar houses in the area. I actually put in offers on 6 houses simultaneously and made sure that all the agents knew it, and that I would take whichever owner accepted first (not true!).

All of the owners are asking for black money, and I tried the tactic of walking into the agent´s office and stating up front "don´t show me anything where black money is involved". I was shown the door!!! The attitude is "if you´re not prepared to pay what I want, the next person will".

I fear that if I refuse "point blank" to pay black money then I will have hardly anything left to choose from and get left with a real dog of a house. There are no expat sellers around here - it is all Spanish wanting to do things the Spanish way.

I HATE buying resale with a passion, but there just wasn´t any offplan developments that suited me. My stress levels are going through the roof at the moment.

MnM

I understand completely, but know this, the Government is clamping down fiercly on black money transactions. They are cross referencing sales in surrounding areas and will also be requesting that the bank valuations be declared! Also, if you decide to sell in the future, it will come back and bite you in the .......!

Three years ago, the solicitor we work with told us that "black money" is something we should get used to. Today he says do not even touch a property where the owner wants black money. Both the buyer and seller are liable if caught.

At the end of the day, it is your decision, but at least ask for advice from your solicitor and bank manager. Above all else, be careful and good luck to you again!

MnM

Oh, I also forgot to mention that large withdrawals (above €3,000) from a Spanish bank must be declared and accompanied by documents (facturas, etc.) as to what the money was used for!

jdr

I assume what he says is correct, maybe our friendly resident solicitors can help. ;-)
They are trying to cut the black money out, so if you get conned into paying it and when you sell you cant do the same you will pay the tax ;-(
I am sure its a buyers market, dont show too much interest, make the offer and leave your number.

jdr

Its probably changed as you say, but a couple of years ago I took out 10,000€ no trouble at all, except the teller shouting across to the manager " is it ok for him to take out 10,000€ ?" Ahhhh, glad I dont look a whimp.

MnM

*l*.....yeah we know the feeling. In 2005 we took out €360,000 in CASH (bought a plot of land for a client and the buyer insisted on cash!) and no questions asked!

This year we had to declare all the large amounts (above €3000) that were withdrawn from the accounts in 2006!

keithwalters

Yeah, I´ve heard it is being clamped down on, and believe you me I would not pay black money willingly!!

But I feel like I´m stuck between a rock and a hard place: pay black money and get the house I want - refuse to pay black money and find that 95% of the properties on the market are not available to me.

culchie

I think that on the Costas the practice of ´black money´is disappearing, influenced mostly by the number of ex-pat buyers and sellers.
However, in your part of the world ´black money´is a reality and I don´t know of any house sales where it hasn´t played a part.
I think the most important consideration is whether you intend to sell the property again in the next couple of years. If you do...then you´ll have problems. If you don´t then I wouldn´t worry. I didn´t. However, one never knows what hand fate will deal you!