Originally Posted by poollounger

Maybe the Thailand reference was a bit off topic but I was merely infering that as expats are often exploited so they exploit as well !! I support honesty and decency as well, but these are subjective traits capable of being interpreted in many different ways. It is an inescapable fact that the influx of expats able to afford to pay higher prices than the Spanish has led to the market being priced out of their range, so that many can only afford flats and not houses. And yes I do feel pangs of guilt if this is truly so. I sympathise deeply with anyone who bought in good faith and was led awry by deliberate concealment and falsification of facts, but although I have heard of cases..eg being told that 'It's OK, your meter will be provided once you sign the contract to purchase ' and of people being economical with the truth, I have heard of these instances in other parts of Spain as well. Friends near Alicante found out, having bought from an agent they considered to be a friend, that they had probably paid 30,000 over the odds. Again, I would love to hear the truth behind the course of events that has lead to the situation in Chiclana. I do not believe it is a gigantic conspiracy. I know of people who bought well aware that they would have an illegal connection, arranged by their agent, under the impression that this was normal practice. Perhaps they were over eager and naive ?? Maybe not ?? If I was uncaring about the situation I would merely fly over and enjoy my time there and not get involved with this continuing thread, but I like Chiclana , and am glad I bought there. In some ways I should perhaps be glad that people are disillusioned with the place as this may slow the pace of expats rushing to buy there and the over anglicisation of the area ????

Originally Posted by Unexpat

Should, but perhaps I have become cynical with age and I expect a much wider spectrum of behaviour from my fellow human beings. Honesty and decency are, after all, subjective and human nature in general is to look after oneself first. Ignoring these realities will just lead to frustration, however much we may wish for an alternative idealogy.

Unfortunately, I suspect that continuing this particular discussion is going to get us into a philosophical debate that is perhaps beyond the scope of this thread, even though the title of it is arguably somewhat metaphysical .

Originally Posted by mitzipurr

Poollounger you have your opinion and I have mine. I think it is time to draw this discussion to a close because you seem unable to see the situation for what it is.

Originally Posted by poollounger

Mitzipurr have you ever tried sailing as a sport ?? I started late in life and it really changed my outlook in so many ways. It breeds self sufficiency in a wonderful way, and just like life, sometimes it gets tough and rough out there and one just wants to give up head for cover, but one has to plow on and it all comes right in the end (mainly) and leaves one with a wonderful sense of self achievement.

Originally Posted by Harley69

Let's not all get heated up.... It's pointless... We are all individuals and as such see things is different ways...

Good points have been made both on this thread and throughout this site...

Basically don't take anything for granted and if in doubt check it out.

This information is absolutely priceless...

Originally Posted by Unexpat

Also a sailor, but I'm saving my change of pants until I one day attempt an atlantic crossing

Originally Posted by kevray

By heck do you have a way with words, condescending or what ?
I have been sailing most of my life and the only thing that got changed were my pants !!

Originally Posted by poollounger

I think it may be that I am a born optimist and you are not ??? Not an accusation just wondering..............
I just don't believe that all the world or even Chiclana is out to scam people whenever they can. Even when I have been scammed (and I have ) I try not to be cynical, because negativity and bad feeling just turns inwards and harm oneself. Of course there are mean self centred exploitive people out there, but I try to avoid them, and usually manage to do so. And there is always some sort of justice as these people always get their comeuppance in the end.
Mitzipurr have you ever tried sailing as a sport ?? I started late in life and it really changed my outlook in so many ways. It breeds self sufficiency in a wonderful way, and just like life, sometimes it gets tough and rough out there and one just wants to give up head for cover, but one has to plow on and it all comes right in the end (mainly) and leaves one with a wonderful sense of self achievement.

Originally Posted by Harley69

Let's not all get heated up.... It's pointless... We are all individuals and as such see things is different ways...

Good points have been made both on this thread and throughout this site...

Basically don't take anything for granted and if in doubt check it out.

This information is absolutely priceless...

Originally Posted by glynis

Just to change the topic slightly. Did anyone else read in Diario de Cadiz yesterday that chiclana is going to have a tram service eventually going out to Cadiz and Jerez Airport. If it takes as long as the underground car park to be built we will all be dead and buried but an interesting concept none the less.

Originally Posted by mitzipurr

Poollounger I thought we had drawn a veil on this discussion as it was getting nowhere. No I am not a optomist and neither am I pessimist. I am just a realist that can see as plain has the nose on my face just what is happening in Chiclana. When you do come to live her all the year round perhaps you will see it also?? It happened in Marbella but on a grander scale and look at the mess that town is in.
I do so hope that you are right when you say what goes around comes around I can think of several people not a million miles away from here whom I dearly wish that would happpen to. No I have never sailed prefer to travel in style ie buisness class Emirates airlines. Now that is the way to travel!!

Originally Posted by poollounger

On something we agree....business class Emirates is the way to travel...I just presented my positive outlook at the check in desk and got a free and unexpected upgrade !!