Fortaleza you are quite right in some cases. I too know some people who are quite proud of not paying their taxes and it really makes my blood boil. They are also the ones who say they left the Uk because of the immigrant situation, how they (the immigarants) want to live in their ghettos and not learn the language or integate, when they do the same. However there are some people here who bought in good faith, and want to pay their taxes, IBI, basura etc but are unable to because of unscrupulous people, including their lawyers, not telling them that there was a problem with their property.

There are some people that I know personally, and who are friends, who are not greedy. They have sunk their life savings into their new home and want to live here and integrate as far as they can. I know a couple who are both in their 70's who are without electricity because they have been sold a home without any guarantees. This is the time that they are supposed to be enjoying their life. They also want to pay their way. How are they to know that the statement 'The Spanish do things differently 'was not the truth? It has been for years and it's only recently that things have begun to change. there are lots of Spanish families involved in this as well. Are you saying they are naive or being greedy?

There for the grace of God go we. We bought in 2004 and, perhaps with some good luck as we didn't know about the situation, we ended up buying a resale with no problems.

I do think you are generalising with the naivety thing because naivety is only as good as the advice you are given. There is no point tarring everyone with the same brush, it's not fair and, after all, you are not from these parts so you don't really know the situation.

JJ

Without wanting to defame anyone here, I wouldn't base any judgement based on what's written on my cadiz. That's purely my opinion, has nothing to do with BE Forum whatsoever, nor anybody else who knows me!!!

As an ass kicking goes, I think I got off lightly. Thanks for that.

I am not from your parts but have certainly more experience of it than 2004. But that's splitting hairs.... of which I daren't lose any more!!!

Hmmmm..... generalisations. Maybe, but this place is full of them (generally speaking)

Time to 'llama pan pan y vino vino'

On the foreign side:

Blinded by the desire to get what they want quickly, many (which I don't think is a generalisation as it leaves room for others who didn't) were happy to beleive what they were being told and there is an trait amongst a lot of northern Europeans to think that the Spanish system is somewhat inferior (whether they admit to it or not, it is apparent in many people's attitudes - OMG it is on this Forum daily), so they were happy participants. That they wanted to do the right thing and get everything done right is further evidence of them not investigating the thing further. My point was that many people accepted things that they would never have accepted in their own country.

That you suggest 'legality' is a new thing is of the upmost arrogance. I moved to Spain 11 years ago and have always bought legally and correctly. It's no different to anywhere else. If someone suggests the black money route you have two options - go with the flow or refuse. Either way, you need to look into it.

On the Spanish side

You use the Spanish families caught up in this mess as a flaw in my argument. The contrary, I would say. The second home on the coast is something all families want and if they have to cut corners to get it then so be it. Now that they've been caught out.....

But as you so brightly pointed out - given that I had already mentioned it - I'm 'not from these parts' therefore what the hell do I know???

Just to expand on the Spanish families. Chiclana is a working town. The spanish families we are speaking about are those who live and work there full time. Some of whom are born and bred Chiclana. Its not just us naive foreigners caught up in this but the locals too.

I think the problem for many is that they did things exactly as they would have done in the UK not differently- They hired a Lawyer and trusted him to protect their interests!

In the UK we pay lawyers large sums of money to take care of things we don't understand and in the vast majority of cases we can trust them to do that.

When buying a house we leave him to get on with the purchase, we believe him when he says that the searches etc are back, everything is ok and we're ready to exchange contracts.

I for one never personally checked every word of the contract or looked at every document related to the purchse, just the ones my lawyer drew to my attention.

In Chiclana, I also paid a large amount of money to a lawyer to protect my interests only afterwards did I learn that they are not accountable in the way they are in the UK and that the client should double check everything for themselves!

Here, here Dazzle. Niave, gullible yes but trying to be dishonest no.

We hired a lawyer to check over our paperwork and to be present at the notary office when we completed. 30 mins work cost us 700euros (that was without a receipt, he wanted a lot more if we insisted on one) thankfully we must have had one of Chiclana's very few honest EA's back in 2003 who pulled out all the stops and earned what we paid him. No matter how much research you think you have done in a country like Spain that changes it's laws from one area to another, one town in Andalucia is so different to another one 50KM up the road it would be a miracle to get the truth. Chiclana was not ready for what has happened to it, in many ways it had has only just enter the 20th century let alone the 21st, that was the charm that it held for so many of us.

When I read articles that take a swipe at Brits for being greedy and getting their comeuppance because they wanted something for nothing I get really miffed. Whilst there are people who are proud of cheating the system and hopeful of making a kill on their property there are many, many more who had worked hard all their lives, sunk all the hard earned cash into what they thought was going to be a better life in their senior years. Young people who took that risk, sold up and brought their families out to an area of Spain that sadly did not have the amenities to support the influx of people that arrived in the early part of the 21 century. These people have lost so much and are having to either bite the bullet, make the most of what they have or cut their loses and go back to the UK to start again. Whatever the case they don't need to be told they did it wrong, they didn't research enough, they tried to beat the system, for the grace of god goes many more of us.

Those fellow brits that take pride in not paying their taxes and charging the earth for a simple DIY job will one day reap their just deserts, and to them we can say "you reap what you sow" as for those that have been taken advantage of and cheated out of their life savings let's not rub the salt into the wound and say "I told you so". Show a little compassion, give a little luvving

Chris, I couldn't have put it better myself.

JJ

You're welcome JJ, anytime

oops

Sorry to hear those problems.

We are about 20 minutes from Chiclana, and go thru there occasionally, especially on the way to worship at the cathedral of Leroy Merlin.

We too have been laughed at for wanting to be legit, pay our taxes and so on, but I know what my luck is like.