Re: Cash still rules in Spain
 

Ed Miliband: I'm bringing socialism back to Britain

I will concede that at the core, humans are instinctively capitalist in nature, despite their political affiliation or whether they'd admit it or not. Humans instinctively aspire to prosper, and be free to control their own destiny.

This helps explain why the socialist ruling class and their peers always end up 'capitalising' on their immunity from the system at the expense of those they rule, engaging in 'social engineering' that defines people's destiny for them, and ultimately, penalising them for pursuing what comes naturally to them. A lesson that could be learned from prohibition, for example.

So, yes, technically, you are correct. Labour and virtually all other socialist parties must speak the line and may even believe what they say, but ultimately are necessarily capitalist in practice, not only out of necessity, but simply because that's how humans are.

Lipstick on a pig....

Re: Cash still rules in Spain
 

Children are very much socialist in nature, in fact, more like communists. After all, well balanced chldren share their toys, food and possessions. Adults certainly do not

Funnily enough, there have been studies to show that the more advertising children are exposed to, the more selfish they are. It is a capitalist society that makes people become capitalist. After all, you would have to be an idiot to share with someone who will never give anything back in return

And socialism doesnt mean a "lack of freedom". I don't know where you've gotten that from

Re: Cash still rules in Spain
 

Some confuse socialism with Soviet style communism.

Re: Cash still rules in Spain
 

When I raised my kids, I wasn't over-protective. I gave them enough freedom to make their own decisions - 'burn their fingers' (so to speak) and learn from their mistakes. All my kids have grown up self-sufficient and prosperous - as a result of their own making, not mine or the government's.

As you point out, Socialism intrinsically sees itself as the 'parent' of a population which must be "protected" from themselves - as though they are somehow incapable of making good decisions. It's a type of 'social engineering' that transfers personal responsibility to the state 'for the common good'.

Sure, it would be nice to let someone else accept responsibility for me, but then, I am also obliged to live by state rules - just as children are obliged to live by the rules set by their parents.

When granted the power to assume the role of a 'paternal keeper' of an entire village, province, or nation of adopted adult 'children', then it's natural to begin to see them not as helpless children, but as a means to increase wealth and power. And historically, that's where the vast majority socialist states have ended up to varying degrees. Corrupt, unequal, unproductive, and failing...

Re: Cash still rules in Spain
 

Your last 4 words could almost describe the USA. Maybe not failing as an economy but certainly as a society .

Re: Cash still rules in Spain
 

Quite

Amideislas keeps using a falsism which she seems to think is true. I can only assume she picked it up from a Hollywood movie

That is capitalism = freedom

That is completely false of course. In capitalism we are slaves to money. We are "free" to try and make money, but we are slaves all the same. We live in societies where money is held in greater esteem than personal relationships, quality of life, protecting the less fortunate, caring and empowering children etc.

Instead we want to constantly take advantage of people and situations to make more money. That's why people are unhappier now than they have ever been. Even millionnaires are unhappy because they don't have as much as the billionnaires

Re: Cash still rules in Spain
 

How's the view from up there, Guys?

Re: Cash still rules in Spain
 

Exactly.
You only have to consider Spain with its massive unemployment problem and people being thrown out of their houses onto the streets with nowhere to go or else giving up on life altogether and topping themselves.

Re: Cash still rules in Spain
 

Look, here's just a little localised example of the "freedoms" increased governmental controls take away.

In this neighbourhood, if you own less than 11000 square meters of land, you will not be given permission to build a pool. Why?

Certainly these rules are made in the interest of the 'common good' for some reason, but this is not a matter of increasing urbanisation, health & safety, or anything else. It's simply the right to have a pool. The land is already there, you have a house on it. It's probably used as a parking lot. Who is damaged by this?

Now, plenty of homeowners with far less than 11000 sq. meters have pools, but they were installed before these restrictions were introduced. I admit I have no idea whether it was introduced during the last socialist rule or not, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised. The mindset around here leans very much that direction. But this is an example of government defining what you are allowed to do or not, which is a typically socialist character.

Since I can't reckon any tangible reason for this restriction, other than speculation that there's some belief that a pool is somehow something 'decadent', and just because you have the money to build one, doesn't mean you should be allowed to enjoy the unfairness of that prosperity. I can only presume the rationale is something like, "Plenty of people cannot afford such things, and so it's in the interest of the 'common good' that you also should not be allowed to possess such decadence". Really, I can't think of any other reason for it. Can you?

On the other hand, if you do build a pool, you can now 'legalise' it for a hefty 'fine'. And that begs the question of what was wrong with building a pool in the first place?

Anyway, that's just one example of the kinds of regulations parental socialist governments traditionally like to impose - in the interest of the 'common good'.

Re: Cash still rules in Spain
 

Mallorca has been run traditionally by the PP. The very antithesis of socialist

Even the PSOE isn't socialist in terms of economic policies

Re: Cash still rules in Spain
 

Thanks to all the socialist community groups, these people are being given help. And they have directly led to community-focused socialists being appointed mayors of Madrid and Barcelona fighting their cause!

I guess DD and amideislas don't know much about Spanish politics. Shame, you know, living in Spain and all...

Re: Cash still rules in Spain
 

No, actually, the PP won on a sort of 'lesser of two evils' vote. The PSOE (I believe likely they are responsible for all the silly restrictions on everything here) made a complete mess of the economy, was even more corrupt than the PP and imposed much too much control over everyday life, and people just got sick of it. Naturally, now they hate the PP because it's also corrupt, and the state has cut back on social spending, and so there are fewer freebies available.

On the other hand, Mallorca's economy is the best it's been in over a decade and the unemployment rate is the lowest in memory, so whilst socialism sounds good as an alternative to the PP, it will unfortunately send us back a few years. They are already proposing to spend like crazy - I just read a laundry list of new social spending and new restrictions on everything, as well as new taxes to pay for it all - including a proposal for a kind of 'wealth tax', which, if implemented, will send about 1/3 of the residents packing (there are lots of wealthy people here - for now).

They seem to be all wound up about attacking a virtually non-existent set of problems. But that's socialism...

Re: Cash still rules in Spain
 

Maybe you have a very short memory? :rofl:

El paro baja en Baleares en un 14,25% respecto al año anterior - Diario de Mallorca

Unemployment is the lowest it has been in 5 years but way higher than in 2007

Re: Cash still rules in Spain
 

OK 8 years. Sorry, I'm getting old. I find it difficult to remember every detail from 5 years ago, let alone 8.

But yes, the growing economy here is a complete disaster and we're gonna fix it by penalising anyone who dares to prosper. None too soon, too. There's already too many people here with what we feel is an unacceptable amount of bob, and with the strengthening economy, it's getting worse. So, we're gonna take what's rightfully ours and spend it somehow.

I've been trying to find a link, but to no avail, but I remember sometime earlier this year reading an article in the local rag about an unusually high number of celebrities selling up their vacation properties on the island - Michael Douglas (a long-time Mallorca holidaymaker and finca owner here) being one of them - his finca just went on the market.

Anyway, the article pointed out the coincidence of this exodus following the comments of some extreme leftist member of the local socialist party proposing that non-resident celebrities owning property on the island should be forced to declare their worldwide incomes and pay local tax on it (locally coined the 'celebrity tax'). The article suggested that financial advisers to these wealthy celebs may be advising them to ditch while they can.

Re: Cash still rules in Spain
 

Good! If they aren't willing to contribute then they can F off!

Typical of the entitled rich, happy to live in a place and long as their income isn't taxed very much. Take as much as they can and give back nothing