Lynn R

How exactly can personal experience be ill-informed? I spent 20 years of my life working for a trade union that represented the interests of NHS staff, amongst others, and would have been the first to defend them. That's partly why I felt so very let down when observing the reality for myself, first when my mother was in hospital and then my father (in two different hospitals). I would very much hope that some hospitals are much better, but nobody can deny that some patients' experience of care leave a very great deal to be desired.

Perhaps you consider the Patient Opinion website which I quoted (nothing from the Mail or the Sun, please note) to be ill informed as well, or the Robert Francis report on the Mid Staffs failings? It does nobody any favours to attempt to brush these things under the carpet, least of all the patients - who are the important ones here, not the staff.

Did you call patients' relatives stupid when they expressed concerns about their care on the wards when you were working? That attitude speaks volumes about the culture that has developed in parts of the NHS, I must say.

agoreira

I would imagine that "spend per patient" will drop even more, given that there are charges for medicines that are not covered by the normal prescriptions (running into hundreds of pounds a month for some), el copago, a percentage of the prescription charge, charges for ambulances, crutches etc. Plus any Brit not autonomo or retired is forced to pay private health insurance, in fact a third of Spain's health bill is private insurance. The opinions I generally read here on the Spanish health service are vastly different to what I read in the Spanish media, perhaps they are not afraid to tell it like it is. Bit like the expats tell us about the UK situation.

cricketman

Not at all. You are confusing spend with excellent service

Just because something costs a lot doesnt make it good. In fact a health service that costs too much has a very negative effect on society

Health in the US costs over twice as much per head than in Spain. The rich get treated very well, but overall the US has much worse stats for child mortality, maternal mortality, cancer deaths, heart disease etc than any Western European country

Even Cuba has better numbers than the US on a lot of measures and their spend per head is less than one tenth of that of the US's

If money were no concern then the health service would be incredible, but of course there is only so much money to go around

cricketman

Yes because things are changing and getting worse in Spain at the moment. The PP want to privatise everything in health and education and are cutting the public services so it may end up that only the poorest in society end up going to public schools and public hospitals

This is already the case for public schools, one third of Spanish kids go to fee paying schools. Something to bear in mind for expats who put their children into the local school!

I've been told that there are two good state schools in Oviedo (the princess went to one of them). If our son doesnt get in them (children with poor parents get priority) then we will have to go to a fee paying school, even though in principal I am against private health and private education

Rosemary

I know that there have been a lot of cutbacks more recently but throughout my husbands illness they never once skimped on the provision of tests and investigative proceedures.

If people are alone in the hospital they do everything for them it is just that they prefer and expect the family to do the main caring. Not sure how much of this is due to the fact that the families expect and want to do this for the patient and therefore it is a historical thing or due to using their resources in more productive ways.

I remember when Graham first went in for the initial tests that I asked about visiting hours and kept on getting blank looks. I thought that it was down to my terrible Spanish but in actual fact it was because they did not understand the question as this is not part of their experience.

Rosemary

jackytoo

Visiting rules do vary. The CDS Hospital changed theirs a few years ago and they have quite strict rules. When a friend was in for 3 weeks she was driven crazy by visitors to the patient she shared a room with. There were 4 or 5 relatives around the bed at 1am some days.

cricketman

When our son was born in the CDS, the couple we were sharing with had a full on party with some 15 or so people in our room and cava, music and empanadas all round

Our 2 hour old son quickly got to know what Andaluces are like I loved it. The wife wasnt too happy though after 24 hours of labour

Lynn R

Our local hospital has also introduced strict visiting hours and limit the number of visitors to 2 at any one time - apart from the acompanante who is allowed to be there 24 hours a day.

cricketman

That didnt stop the people in our room!

Lynn R

This was only introduced at the Hospital Comarcal de la Axarquia last year - and they were certainly enforcing it when I went to visit a friend there last summer as another visitor there at the same time had been challenged by a member of staff when she arrived about 15 minutes before the start of the stipulated visiting hours. Quite right too, no point in having restrictions if they aren't enforced.

jackytoo

We aren't helping the OP with all this, who asked care after discharge from hospital?

A man we knew had a stroke, was kept in 3 days and released with a prescription. He could not walk and was confused. He lived with a women in her apartment in Fuengirola, no lift. He had only been living with the woman about a year. She was unable to find any assistance anywhere. She did read the riot act to his 2 daughters but as he had left home when they were young they were unwilling to accept responsibility. He should have been in a care home.

Domino

Bob, I wouldnt want to turn this into a personal campaign but there is something wrong with the NHS. Perhaps it is just too big. Perhaps it is the sacred cow that can't be touched. Blair spent the whole of his time as PM, followed by Brown - continually warning the people that the NHS wasn't safe in the Tories hands. But Brown agreed to PFI being off the books to the extent that trusts are heading (or have already entered) into a unique form of voluntary agreement of bankruptcy with the public purse paying to keep them solvent.

The poor state of care and of the poor quality of treatment means that of the £100billion spent on the NHS negligence claims now account for £15billion
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012...n_1257569.html
Any negligence by doctor or nurse in the NHS is covered by the employer, they do not have to have any form of negligence insurance.

Surely these figures indicate a problem, be it uncleaned wards, untrained staff doing the work of trained staff.

when my BH slipped on black ice I was able to get her in the car and take here to Emergency, where she sat for 7 hours with a Collis fracture without any pain relief. In the meantime people with minor cuts and grazes as well as drunks who had been brought in by ambulance were given priority over her.
so it is our vow never ever to take someone in to hospital - call an ambulance, over load the system, but you will get priority.
We all have good experiences of the NHS but its only the bad experiences that people remember and talk about.

Lynn R

Actually, on the Patient Opinion website I quoted earlier there are lots and lots of positive comments from people who have been happy with their experience at various levels within the NHS - it is good that they take the time to do this.

During my Dad's 6 month hospital stay he spent a few days on the High Dependency Unit and I couldn't speak highly enough of the staff on that ward, they were so professional and caring. I wrote a letter to the Ward Manager when he was transferred and copied the Chief Executive of the Trust in, to thank them. I believe in giving credit where credit is due, but will speak up also when things are clearly wrong.

PS Well, well, well - have just seen this BBC report that suspected discrepancies in the way the Royal Bolton Hospital NHS Trust (where my Dad was treated) have been recording deaths from septicaemia are to be the subject of an investigation, and their Acting Chief Executive has "stepped aside". Not before time - still think I am ill-informed, Bob-Bob?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-21600440

bob_bob

The claims are more a reflection of the times we live in when you sue anyone for anything.

I'm going to keep out of NHS debates on forums like this populated by people talking bullocks. You really have no idea what the fluck your talking about.

Have to go before I throw something at my computer screen.

Lynn R

Your views are even out of step with those of the nursing professional bodies:-


http://nursingstandard.rcnpublishing...on-on-the-line