Burgled- What would you do?
Mar 17th 2010, 9:59 pm
#46
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: Burgled- What would you do?
Well, yes and no. A simple open approach often works best, but as I said, it would be last resort, and not one I would favour.
I do hold a lot of sympathy with the attitude that a man with nothing to lose is a very dangerous animal, and if you deliberately put someone in that position, don't come crying to me if he then takes it out on you in the nastiest way possible. I certainly would do just that.
Oh yes, and I certainly would go round announcing to everyone that I would shoot the next thief I caught breaking in.
I do hold a lot of sympathy with the attitude that a man with nothing to lose is a very dangerous animal, and if you deliberately put someone in that position, don't come crying to me if he then takes it out on you in the nastiest way possible. I certainly would do just that.
Oh yes, and I certainly would go round announcing to everyone that I would shoot the next thief I caught breaking in.
Mar 17th 2010, 10:32 pm
#47
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: Burgled- What would you do?
Oh please.
If there is one thing that stands out it is that prison doesn't work. It's a great place for making bad people worse. Time and time again we see that the more you punish someone, the more likely they are to reoffend, and the harsher the imprisonment, the more this is true.
Uk prisons are very nasty places if you are a normal human being. US prisons are far, far worse, and the US locks up more of it's population (per 1000 people) than any other country in the world, if I remember that right. That's not indicative that it is a real deterrent.
In short, you need to bend every sinew to make sure that you treat criminals so that they do not reoffend, and not pander to populist idiots who want hanging and flogging without having the brains to realise that they will have to pay a high price for indulging their moralistic fantasies.
A couple of points. Keeping a prisoner connected to his family gives a better chance of reform, but the last time I looked, they made sure that prisoners were locked up as far away from their families as possible. Plus, on being released, they were given a week's money and told they couldn't claim social security for two weeks.
This of course may have changed, but if not, duuuhhhhhhhhh.
It's almost as if the government wanted to ensure that they stayed trapped in the system until they were so instityutionalised they couldn't survive outside.
I also accept that there are some people who will not accept society's norms and conform to a life free of violence and thieving. At that point those people should be locked up for the duration. Regrettable, but there you are.
If there is one thing that stands out it is that prison doesn't work. It's a great place for making bad people worse. Time and time again we see that the more you punish someone, the more likely they are to reoffend, and the harsher the imprisonment, the more this is true.
Uk prisons are very nasty places if you are a normal human being. US prisons are far, far worse, and the US locks up more of it's population (per 1000 people) than any other country in the world, if I remember that right. That's not indicative that it is a real deterrent.
In short, you need to bend every sinew to make sure that you treat criminals so that they do not reoffend, and not pander to populist idiots who want hanging and flogging without having the brains to realise that they will have to pay a high price for indulging their moralistic fantasies.
A couple of points. Keeping a prisoner connected to his family gives a better chance of reform, but the last time I looked, they made sure that prisoners were locked up as far away from their families as possible. Plus, on being released, they were given a week's money and told they couldn't claim social security for two weeks.
This of course may have changed, but if not, duuuhhhhhhhhh.
It's almost as if the government wanted to ensure that they stayed trapped in the system until they were so instityutionalised they couldn't survive outside.
I also accept that there are some people who will not accept society's norms and conform to a life free of violence and thieving. At that point those people should be locked up for the duration. Regrettable, but there you are.
I would love to see some evidence that your softly,softly approach actually worked, except in a very small percentage of cases.
Meantime the rest of them dont care a monkeys if they get locked away for a short stretch of easy porridge and are soon back out repeating the same offences time and time again before they get another short stretch or a gentle slap on the wrist.
You just have to take note of the attitude of most of them, to see they have absolutely no respect for the police,for law and order or for those who try to guide them down the straight and narrow.
For me the safety and well being of the law abiding,decent members of the general public, who are suffering from these repeat offenders,(and lets face it almost all of them are repeat offenders),should come first and foremost irrespective of a bit of inconvenience or unpleasantness to the career criminals.
Mar 18th 2010, 4:13 pm
#48
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: Burgled- What would you do?
Possibly harsh prisons are not the perfect answer unless they are locked up for good,but at least justice is served to a certain extent.
I would love to see some evidence that your softly,softly approach actually worked, except in a very small percentage of cases.
Meantime the rest of them dont care a monkeys if they get locked away for a short stretch of easy porridge and are soon back out repeating the same offences time and time again before they get another short stretch or a gentle slap on the wrist.
You just have to take note of the attitude of most of them, to see they have absolutely no respect for the police,for law and order or for those who try to guide them down the straight and narrow.
For me the safety and well being of the law abiding,decent members of the general public, who are suffering from these repeat offenders,(and lets face it almost all of them are repeat offenders),should come first and foremost irrespective of a bit of inconvenience or unpleasantness to the career criminals.
I would love to see some evidence that your softly,softly approach actually worked, except in a very small percentage of cases.
Meantime the rest of them dont care a monkeys if they get locked away for a short stretch of easy porridge and are soon back out repeating the same offences time and time again before they get another short stretch or a gentle slap on the wrist.
You just have to take note of the attitude of most of them, to see they have absolutely no respect for the police,for law and order or for those who try to guide them down the straight and narrow.
For me the safety and well being of the law abiding,decent members of the general public, who are suffering from these repeat offenders,(and lets face it almost all of them are repeat offenders),should come first and foremost irrespective of a bit of inconvenience or unpleasantness to the career criminals.
Almost no-one was inclined to point out the following points.
1. It was more a Duke of Ed course.
2. They did get to swim with dolphins etc, but only if they did as they were told, completed the course etc.
3. Less of the group reoffended than did a similar group that were treated conventionally.
4. It was cheaper.
I sure as sh*t can't even prove that smoking causes cancer, so how you would expect me to 'prove' this beats me.
Have a look at those TV programmes about the US jails, it's ******* horrifying, and while their regime is far stricter than the UK, al that I have ever read indicates that the harsher you treat them, the more likely they are to reoffend.
At the end of the day, we should bend heaven and earth to keep people out of jail, and try and break the cycle of bad choices they make.
As for the rest, the wilful offenders that will not take the outstretched hand, as far as I am concerned, you can lock them up and weld the door shut.
Just bear in mind it is cheaper to keep them at the Ritz, so you might want to rethink your taste for punishment over reform, 'cos you can't have both.
Mar 18th 2010, 5:14 pm
#49
HOODIE
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: The Woolpack
Posts: 536
Re: Burgled- What would you do?
There was an absolute sh*tstorm in the tabloids when they took a group of first time twockers etc off to foreign climes for what the Mail described as a foreign holiday at the taxpayer's expense.
Almost no-one was inclined to point out the following points.
1. It was more a Duke of Ed course.
2. They did get to swim with dolphins etc, but only if they did as they were told, completed the course etc.
3. Less of the group reoffended than did a similar group that were treated conventionally.
4. It was cheaper.
I sure as sh*t can't even prove that smoking causes cancer, so how you would expect me to 'prove' this beats me.
Have a look at those TV programmes about the US jails, it's ******* horrifying, and while their regime is far stricter than the UK, al that I have ever read indicates that the harsher you treat them, the more likely they are to reoffend.
At the end of the day, we should bend heaven and earth to keep people out of jail, and try and break the cycle of bad choices they make.
As for the rest, the wilful offenders that will not take the outstretched hand, as far as I am concerned, you can lock them up and weld the door shut.
Just bear in mind it is cheaper to keep them at the Ritz, so you might want to rethink your taste for punishment over reform, 'cos you can't have both.
Almost no-one was inclined to point out the following points.
1. It was more a Duke of Ed course.
2. They did get to swim with dolphins etc, but only if they did as they were told, completed the course etc.
3. Less of the group reoffended than did a similar group that were treated conventionally.
4. It was cheaper.
I sure as sh*t can't even prove that smoking causes cancer, so how you would expect me to 'prove' this beats me.
Have a look at those TV programmes about the US jails, it's ******* horrifying, and while their regime is far stricter than the UK, al that I have ever read indicates that the harsher you treat them, the more likely they are to reoffend.
At the end of the day, we should bend heaven and earth to keep people out of jail, and try and break the cycle of bad choices they make.
As for the rest, the wilful offenders that will not take the outstretched hand, as far as I am concerned, you can lock them up and weld the door shut.
Just bear in mind it is cheaper to keep them at the Ritz, so you might want to rethink your taste for punishment over reform, 'cos you can't have both.
Would army camps be good for 'younger' criminals do ya think? Some of the lads were burglars and the like.. (Not mass murderers or anything)
Last edited by Lushdaddy; Mar 18th 2010 at 5:16 pm. Reason: Highlighted something by accident
Mar 18th 2010, 5:20 pm
#50
Yaaarp
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Trying to get the hell outta Spain!
Posts: 1,354
Re: Burgled- What would you do?
Bring back national service!
Mar 18th 2010, 5:30 pm
#51
HOODIE
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: The Woolpack
Posts: 536
Re: Burgled- What would you do?
That's what I mean kind of. Would it be acceptable? Was there less crime when national service was around? Would it be national service just for the Brits and would the other Europeans be able to avoid it and be criminals against our homeland whilst all our would be criminals are in Iraq so they can't help.
Or would it be just for offenders..??
That's what I like, and if you come to live in the UK you have to do two years national service, (with pay) before you are accepted. I would do it to move country..
Or would it be just for offenders..?? That's what I like, and if you come to live in the UK you have to do two years national service, (with pay) before you are accepted. I would do it to move country..
Mar 18th 2010, 5:59 pm
#52
Banned
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
Re: Burgled- What would you do?
That's what I mean kind of. Would it be acceptable? Was there less crime when national service was around? Would it be national service just for the Brits and would the other Europeans be able to avoid it and be criminals against our homeland whilst all our would be criminals are in Iraq so they can't help. Or would it be just for offenders..?? That's what I like, and if you come to live in the UK you have to do two years national service, (with pay) before you are accepted. I would do it to move country..
Or would it be just for offenders..?? That's what I like, and if you come to live in the UK you have to do two years national service, (with pay) before you are accepted. I would do it to move country..
Mar 18th 2010, 7:32 pm
#53
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: Burgled- What would you do?
That's what I mean kind of. Would it be acceptable? Was there less crime when national service was around? Would it be national service just for the Brits and would the other Europeans be able to avoid it and be criminals against our homeland whilst all our would be criminals are in Iraq so they can't help. Or would it be just for offenders..?? That's what I like, and if you come to live in the UK you have to do two years national service, (with pay) before you are accepted. I would do it to move country..
Or would it be just for offenders..?? That's what I like, and if you come to live in the UK you have to do two years national service, (with pay) before you are accepted. I would do it to move country..There could be a hundred different reasons why things seem to have got so much worse in just about all countries in more recent years,mostly connected with so-called progress.
As a deterent or control, tagging has been used quite a lot in recent years and has its attractions, but unfortunately there have been many failings due to the lax management of the system, which has been farmed out to private companies who are filling their coffers but not providing satisfactory monitoring.
Tough prisons keep them out of harms way but are expensive and not the ideal answer
Softly,softly may work for some, but leave the public at great unnecassary risk from others.
What about a short,sharp,shock?
No dont mean the electric chair,...though it is a thought for some of the hard cases.
Pity we dont have a foreign legion...,could send them of to wander the Sahara for the duration,....not many banks to rob or old ladies to mug out there.
Just a pity we cant still send them down under,...seem to get refused entry to Oz these days for some strange reason...
Mar 18th 2010, 8:19 pm
#54
HOODIE
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: The Woolpack
Posts: 536
Re: Burgled- What would you do?
What the hell????
Why would you quote Chas and Dave in a conversation that has absolutely nothing to do with them? You really are a card..
I don't know quite what I should be laughing at though as I don't get the joke.
It's just weird..
The thread is about being burgled it has swayed off a bit to what to do with criminals, just because I sozzled your sausages on the last topic and made you look foolish, doesn't mean you can start misusing the cockney duo's lyrics.
Why would you quote Chas and Dave in a conversation that has absolutely nothing to do with them? You really are a card..
I don't know quite what I should be laughing at though as I don't get the joke.
It's just weird.. The thread is about being burgled it has swayed off a bit to what to do with criminals, just because I sozzled your sausages on the last topic and made you look foolish, doesn't mean you can start misusing the cockney duo's lyrics.
Mar 18th 2010, 8:23 pm
#55
Banned
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
Re: Burgled- What would you do?
What the hell????
Why would you quote Chas and Dave in a conversation that has absolutely nothing to do with them? You really are a card..
I don't know quite what I should be laughing at though as I don't get the joke. It's just weird.. The thread is about being burgled it has swayed off a bit to what to do with criminals, just because I sozzled your sausages on the last topic and made you look foolish, doesn't mean you can start misusing the cockney duo's lyrics.
Why would you quote Chas and Dave in a conversation that has absolutely nothing to do with them? You really are a card..
I don't know quite what I should be laughing at though as I don't get the joke.
It's just weird.. The thread is about being burgled it has swayed off a bit to what to do with criminals, just because I sozzled your sausages on the last topic and made you look foolish, doesn't mean you can start misusing the cockney duo's lyrics.
Mar 19th 2010, 7:58 pm
#56
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: Burgled- What would you do?
What the hell????
Why would you quote Chas and Dave in a conversation that has absolutely nothing to do with them? You really are a card..
I don't know quite what I should be laughing at though as I don't get the joke. It's just weird.. The thread is about being burgled it has swayed off a bit to what to do with criminals, just because I sozzled your sausages on the last topic and made you look foolish, doesn't mean you can start misusing the cockney duo's lyrics.
Why would you quote Chas and Dave in a conversation that has absolutely nothing to do with them? You really are a card..
I don't know quite what I should be laughing at though as I don't get the joke.
It's just weird.. The thread is about being burgled it has swayed off a bit to what to do with criminals, just because I sozzled your sausages on the last topic and made you look foolish, doesn't mean you can start misusing the cockney duo's lyrics.I was just abouit to set off with my rifle and jack russell.
We are both very partial to rabbit paella.
However looks like its going to be pigeon paella again, as the neighbour has just been out bagging a few for the weekend nosebag.
Mar 20th 2010, 5:56 am
#57
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 474
Re: Burgled- What would you do?
They should do what is done in the States. Have minor criminals etc carry out Council Work. Many a time I'd be driving along coming into a Construction Zone with the sign "Convicts Working'. Sure enough the Marshall's were supervising and loads of in-mates were working on the road etc etc.
Much better than simply feeding them and covering for their healthcare.
After the effect a lot of convicts turn good and end up with manual labor jobs also.
DSB.
Much better than simply feeding them and covering for their healthcare.
After the effect a lot of convicts turn good and end up with manual labor jobs also.
DSB.
Mar 20th 2010, 7:53 am
#58
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Valencia area
Posts: 1,160
Re: Burgled- What would you do?
National service ?
Well something that did work (bye & large) in the 60's was detention, this was based on army discipline and was a Short Sharp lesson with no holds barred.
I had quite a few mates go through this & none had an inclination to re-offend, and indeed never did after spending three months at a detention centre.
Well something that did work (bye & large) in the 60's was detention, this was based on army discipline and was a Short Sharp lesson with no holds barred.
I had quite a few mates go through this & none had an inclination to re-offend, and indeed never did after spending three months at a detention centre.
Mar 20th 2010, 8:05 am
#59
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: Burgled- What would you do?
They should do what is done in the States. Have minor criminals etc carry out Council Work. Many a time I'd be driving along coming into a Construction Zone with the sign "Convicts Working'. Sure enough the Marshall's were supervising and loads of in-mates were working on the road etc etc.
Much better than simply feeding them and covering for their healthcare.
After the effect a lot of convicts turn good and end up with manual labor jobs also.
DSB.
Much better than simply feeding them and covering for their healthcare.
After the effect a lot of convicts turn good and end up with manual labor jobs also.
DSB.
I'll content myself by occasionally driving by and pelting them with rotten eggs..
Mar 20th 2010, 8:56 am
#60
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 474
Re: Burgled- What would you do?
DSB.