Building works a few questions.
Jun 28th 2013, 12:41 pm
#1
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Building works a few questions.
Hi Guys,
A few questions which for you will be old hat I reckon.
One of my neighbours is having a pool built however this is becoming a bit of a pain for the following reasons.
1. At various periods of the day the road is completely blocked due to lorries cranes etc. Isn't permission required to block the road. This is a No through road so this is the only access.
2. The road is now partially blocked due to the pile of sand and cement mixing machine and the work in progress.
3. The cement dust is blowing everywhere including over food/washing placed outdoors and generally over the property.
4. There is no statement of works and permission etc.
5. !s it legal to dump sand and cement in the street and work thereby?
6. Should workers wear appropriate safety kit?
7. Because they have the big generator, between what times are they allowed to make a lot of noise?
A few questions which for you will be old hat I reckon.
One of my neighbours is having a pool built however this is becoming a bit of a pain for the following reasons.
1. At various periods of the day the road is completely blocked due to lorries cranes etc. Isn't permission required to block the road. This is a No through road so this is the only access.
2. The road is now partially blocked due to the pile of sand and cement mixing machine and the work in progress.
3. The cement dust is blowing everywhere including over food/washing placed outdoors and generally over the property.
4. There is no statement of works and permission etc.
5. !s it legal to dump sand and cement in the street and work thereby?
6. Should workers wear appropriate safety kit?
7. Because they have the big generator, between what times are they allowed to make a lot of noise?
Last edited by Maybe1day; Jun 28th 2013 at 12:45 pm.
Jun 28th 2013, 1:23 pm
#2
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Re: Building works a few questions.
My advice would be to live with it and accept it.
He's only building a pool and when he has finished he will tidy up and everything will go back to normal. He's not running a business. He seems to be pretty tidy in what he is doing so far - the dust can't be helped.
Believe me, going into hostile mode with a Spanish neighbour at this point will only cost you in the long run, especially in the friendship stakes.
As far as rules and regulations are concerned, this is Spain not Britain. If there are any R&Rs, they will be ignored and any fines your neighbour gets will just be treated as an extra building cost.
He's only building a pool and when he has finished he will tidy up and everything will go back to normal. He's not running a business. He seems to be pretty tidy in what he is doing so far - the dust can't be helped.
Believe me, going into hostile mode with a Spanish neighbour at this point will only cost you in the long run, especially in the friendship stakes.
As far as rules and regulations are concerned, this is Spain not Britain. If there are any R&Rs, they will be ignored and any fines your neighbour gets will just be treated as an extra building cost.
Jun 28th 2013, 1:55 pm
#3
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Re: Building works a few questions.
Hi Guys,
A few questions which for you will be old hat I reckon.
One of my neighbours is having a pool built however this is becoming a bit of a pain for the following reasons.
1. At various periods of the day the road is completely blocked due to lorries cranes etc. Isn't permission required to block the road. This is a No through road so this is the only access.
Bocking the road is inevitable with this sort of work so this would have been acknowledged when the licence was issued.
2. The road is now partially blocked due to the pile of sand and cement mixing machine and the work in progress.
Difficult to see how this type of work could be completed without this disruption.
3. The cement dust is blowing everywhere including over food/washing placed outdoors and generally over the property.
To be expected with works such as this.
4. There is no statement of works and permission etc.
Do you mean the type of A4 paper stuck on the wall like they do in the UK? Not done here, the builder gains a licence for the work which has to be shown to the police if they wish to check the legalities of the build.
5. !s it legal to dump sand and cement in the street and work thereby?
Same as 2.
6. Should workers wear appropriate safety kit?
I have always laughed at the safety/lack of safety in Spain.
7. Because they have the big generator, between what times are they allowed to make a lot of noise?
When we first moved here we found that in our town there was not noise from 2 until 4 but gradually this seems to have changed. I believe that it was only a courtesy rather than a legal requiredment anyway.
A few questions which for you will be old hat I reckon.
One of my neighbours is having a pool built however this is becoming a bit of a pain for the following reasons.
1. At various periods of the day the road is completely blocked due to lorries cranes etc. Isn't permission required to block the road. This is a No through road so this is the only access.
Bocking the road is inevitable with this sort of work so this would have been acknowledged when the licence was issued.
2. The road is now partially blocked due to the pile of sand and cement mixing machine and the work in progress.
Difficult to see how this type of work could be completed without this disruption.
3. The cement dust is blowing everywhere including over food/washing placed outdoors and generally over the property.
To be expected with works such as this.
4. There is no statement of works and permission etc.
Do you mean the type of A4 paper stuck on the wall like they do in the UK? Not done here, the builder gains a licence for the work which has to be shown to the police if they wish to check the legalities of the build.
5. !s it legal to dump sand and cement in the street and work thereby?
Same as 2.
6. Should workers wear appropriate safety kit?
I have always laughed at the safety/lack of safety in Spain.
7. Because they have the big generator, between what times are they allowed to make a lot of noise?
When we first moved here we found that in our town there was not noise from 2 until 4 but gradually this seems to have changed. I believe that it was only a courtesy rather than a legal requiredment anyway.
Rosemary
Jun 28th 2013, 2:14 pm
#4
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Re: Building works a few questions.
Odd that ! As soon as I started to run off about a cubic metre of rain water into the road, the police showed up and made me stop. Everyone around here is very keen to see that I do nothing outside of the rules.
All building works around here have large poster boards with the full details of the works etc.
Undoubtedly you are right and anything I do or say as a foreigner would be ignored by local officials/police etc anyway.
All building works around here have large poster boards with the full details of the works etc.
Undoubtedly you are right and anything I do or say as a foreigner would be ignored by local officials/police etc anyway.
Jun 28th 2013, 2:42 pm
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Re: Building works a few questions.
I would have a quiet word with the owner and builder (if not one and the same) explaining that you need access.
If he gets shirty then simply mention a denuncia. It won't be pleasant but you should be able to get to your own property unless the road is legally closed.
If he gets shirty then simply mention a denuncia. It won't be pleasant but you should be able to get to your own property unless the road is legally closed.
Jun 28th 2013, 4:50 pm
#6
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Re: Building works a few questions.
Odd that ! As soon as I started to run off about a cubic metre of rain water into the road, the police showed up and made me stop. Everyone around here is very keen to see that I do nothing outside of the rules.
All building works around here have large poster boards with the full details of the works etc.Undoubtedly you are right and anything I do or say as a foreigner would be ignored by local officials/police etc anyway.
All building works around here have large poster boards with the full details of the works etc.Undoubtedly you are right and anything I do or say as a foreigner would be ignored by local officials/police etc anyway.
Rosemary
Jun 28th 2013, 5:26 pm
#7
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Re: Building works a few questions.
Torremolinos has become strict in recent times, so I have been told. I intended building/buying a shed and was told that If I wanted a concrete base for it I would require planning permission. I don't think that it would require a notice however. Behind us the house closed the balcony and made a small mod to the roof. This had the full notice with the Works, Architect and Company involved.
The locals are fairly friendly now, we have been here over 5 years and we get the Hola and Buenaa treatment now. Generally speaking they pick up their dog's whoopsies outside our gate too. Does that mean we're sort of accepted ?
I was a tad piqued by all the cement dust especially as I had 5kgs of tomatoes on the final day of drying in the sun. In the morning we have to get in the queue to go out when the lorries move.
I accept that it will all finish but the way they are going about it, it will take ages. All this cement part (shouldn't it be concrete?) could have been finished in a couple of hours with a ready mix truck. I costed this a few years back and they appear to be really slow. It's been 2 weeks (10working days) since the excavator came to dig the hole and they've been at it every day, 8mx4m pool.
The locals are fairly friendly now, we have been here over 5 years and we get the Hola and Buenaa treatment now. Generally speaking they pick up their dog's whoopsies outside our gate too. Does that mean we're sort of accepted ?
I was a tad piqued by all the cement dust especially as I had 5kgs of tomatoes on the final day of drying in the sun. In the morning we have to get in the queue to go out when the lorries move.
I accept that it will all finish but the way they are going about it, it will take ages. All this cement part (shouldn't it be concrete?) could have been finished in a couple of hours with a ready mix truck. I costed this a few years back and they appear to be really slow. It's been 2 weeks (10working days) since the excavator came to dig the hole and they've been at it every day, 8mx4m pool.
Last edited by Maybe1day; Jun 28th 2013 at 5:33 pm.
Jun 28th 2013, 5:46 pm
#8
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Re: Building works a few questions.
Could the notices boards etc not be just a means of advertising given the difficulty getting work? Just a thought .
Jun 28th 2013, 6:42 pm
#9
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Re: Building works a few questions.
Failure to display one if required will result in a large fine.
For smaller works, depending on the Ayuntamiento rules, they may not be required but it will be mentioned in the licence if it is required.
Jun 28th 2013, 6:46 pm
#10
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Re: Building works a few questions.
OK got you
Jun 28th 2013, 7:29 pm
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Re: Building works a few questions.
in Spain there are 2 types of board
a) the general H&S board defining the wearing of boots, hard hats etc etc, these come in various sizes.
b) the project details, with the project name, the promoter, the architect, the builder and sometimes other sundry contractors.
but most importantly where appropriate the cost of the project if using public funds and at the minimum the EU logo if it has been EU funded.
IIRC a couple of UK projects had money deducted from them because the EU logo was not put up on the board and the general public purse had to meet the deficiency.
Spain is very religious about including the EU logo on the works that have been funded from that source.
as an aside, we also have a board at the entrance to the village giving details of the finances that have been made available for the training and re-employment of workers in this agricultural area and the sources of the monies.
a) the general H&S board defining the wearing of boots, hard hats etc etc, these come in various sizes.
b) the project details, with the project name, the promoter, the architect, the builder and sometimes other sundry contractors.
but most importantly where appropriate the cost of the project if using public funds and at the minimum the EU logo if it has been EU funded.
IIRC a couple of UK projects had money deducted from them because the EU logo was not put up on the board and the general public purse had to meet the deficiency.
Spain is very religious about including the EU logo on the works that have been funded from that source.
as an aside, we also have a board at the entrance to the village giving details of the finances that have been made available for the training and re-employment of workers in this agricultural area and the sources of the monies.
Jun 29th 2013, 7:33 am
#12
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Re: Building works a few questions.
At the entrances to the largest urbanisation I've ever come across in Spain are giant boards advising people that planning permission is needed to extend their homes.
Up to 30,000 people have totally ignored the warning. I have to sadly admit that I'm one of them.
Up to 30,000 people have totally ignored the warning. I have to sadly admit that I'm one of them.
Jun 29th 2013, 8:17 am
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Re: Building works a few questions.
No,it is part of the requirements when you have a building licence. They specify exactly what size they should be and what information must be on them. I still have ours as a memento from our new build 10 years ago. It is about 2mx1m on a board.
Failure to display one if required will result in a large fine.
For smaller works, depending on the Ayuntamiento rules, they may not be required but it will be mentioned in the licence if it is required.
Failure to display one if required will result in a large fine.
For smaller works, depending on the Ayuntamiento rules, they may not be required but it will be mentioned in the licence if it is required.
Around here you need to have the H&S board plus the licence details - normally an A4 sheet pinned up in the window or on the door of the building being renovated.
Jun 29th 2013, 7:56 pm
#14
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Re: Building works a few questions.
the problem is when the whole property is illegal, a 5 bed villa with swimming pool on a site that should only have a nave.
Jun 30th 2013, 11:56 pm
#15
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Re: Building works a few questions.
To the original poster I would say just live and let live.
Of course there is going to be some dust and inconvenience, but soon enough the work will be over and hopefully you will still be on good terms with your neighbours.
Work actually starts on our own build first thing in the morning, we are building a new roof terrace and also a pool on the existing roof terrace.
We have the licence, and we don't have to put up a board because it's not a new build, and we only have to notify the Guardia when the concrete waggon is due to arrive, just in case it totally blocks the road.
I also know for a fact that our builders will be working in just shorts....their hard hats will be sat on the wall....this is Spain, nobody cares about H&S issues around here.
I know there is going to be a lot of dust, especially when the builders remove the old roof....but we have told the neighbours (Spanish) and they are not in the least put out by it all, they will even park their cars in a different place to make room for our skip.
That's the way to deal with it and remain friends, it's much better than the Brit mentality of complaining and denuncias, and when the work is finished in a couple of months time we will invite them to a pool party.
Just chill....it makes life here so much easier!
Of course there is going to be some dust and inconvenience, but soon enough the work will be over and hopefully you will still be on good terms with your neighbours.
Work actually starts on our own build first thing in the morning, we are building a new roof terrace and also a pool on the existing roof terrace.
We have the licence, and we don't have to put up a board because it's not a new build, and we only have to notify the Guardia when the concrete waggon is due to arrive, just in case it totally blocks the road.
I also know for a fact that our builders will be working in just shorts....their hard hats will be sat on the wall....this is Spain, nobody cares about H&S issues around here.
I know there is going to be a lot of dust, especially when the builders remove the old roof....but we have told the neighbours (Spanish) and they are not in the least put out by it all, they will even park their cars in a different place to make room for our skip.
That's the way to deal with it and remain friends, it's much better than the Brit mentality of complaining and denuncias, and when the work is finished in a couple of months time we will invite them to a pool party.
Just chill....it makes life here so much easier!