Border Control

Old May 8th 2021, 8:02 am
  #151  
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Default Re: Border Control

Originally Posted by Red Eric
Well I guess that's changed your mind about the matter of supposed randomness of passport stamping.
don’t bother me if they want to stamp it they can. I’ll be going out every weekend when I’ve had my jabs so they will have plenty of stamps to study lol.
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Old May 8th 2021, 8:04 am
  #152  
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Default Re: Border Control

God knows how that’s going to work. Do they just stamp on top of stamps?
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Old May 8th 2021, 12:41 pm
  #153  
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Default Re: Border Control

First and foremost it's always the travellers responsibity to ensure that there is space in a passport for a visa and the recommendation is that two full pages are kept available for that.

Obviously I don't know the actual size of the Schengen stamp but I wouldn't imagine it to be excessively large leading to the possibility of accommodating perhaps four on a page equating to two round trips.

That being so a standard UK passport should be good for about a year's worth of weekend visits, or a couple of years in the case of the 50 page frequent traveller one, after which it will need replacing, an expense and inconvenience you will need to factor into your travel plans.
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Old May 8th 2021, 6:20 pm
  #154  
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Default Re: Border Control

Originally Posted by Stingychips
God knows how that’s going to work. Do they just stamp on top of stamps?
In the early days of the reopening of the Spanish frontier at Gibraltar people with British passports were stamped into into and out of Spain, so a British cross frontier worker would receive two stamps a day.
The Spanish would put their stamps on a clean area of a page, often bypass clean pages or maybe a single stamp, therefore passports would only last few weeks.
Fortunately a new Gibraltar passport could then have been issued within 24 hrs.
Spaniards were stamped in and out of Spain plus also into Gibraltar, Three stamps a day!
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Old May 9th 2021, 10:12 am
  #155  
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Default Re: Border Control

Originally Posted by Stingychips
God knows how that’s going to work. Do they just stamp on top of stamps?
If you really want to know, The Practical Handbook for Border Guards says:

6.4. It may also happen that, in practice, the document enabling a third-country national to cross the border is no longer suitable for affixing a stamp, as there are no longer available pages. In such a case, the third-country national should be recommended to apply for a new passport, so that stamps can continue to be affixed there in the future.

However, as an exception- and particularly in the case of regular cross-border commuters- a separate sheet can be used, to which further stamps can be affixed. The sheet must be given to the third-country national.

In any case, the lack of empty pages in a passport is not, in itself, a valid and sufficient ground to refuse the entry of a person (see point 8, Section I, on the grounds for refusal).
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Old May 11th 2021, 10:11 pm
  #156  
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Default Re: Border Control

If I was border guard and there was no free space for stamp, I would be tempted to stamp it on passport photo. :-)
Or passenger forehead, if he objects to photo stamp.
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Old May 12th 2021, 1:16 am
  #157  
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Default Re: Border Control

Originally Posted by EU.flag
If I was border guard and there was no free space for stamp, I would be tempted to stamp it on passport photo. :-)
Or passenger forehead, if he objects to photo stamp.
If there is absolutely no room left on passport pages, the normal border practice is to stamp on a separate sheet of paper and staple it to the passport, with an advice that the holder should get a new passport.
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Old May 13th 2021, 4:25 am
  #158  
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Default Re: Border Control

Flew recently from a Balkan country direct to Germany - with UK passport.
Immigration stamped it on entry.
Returned via a transit in Vienna yesterday. No passport check between Germany and Austria and Immigration check on leaving Vienna.
Immigration officer didn't stamp passport, but swiped it. I asked him why no stamp out of Schengen area - his reply was "I'm not allowed to."
I asked him if, because he swiped it, there is a record of me leaving Schengen, namely at Austria so as to not affect my 90/180 day allowance ( - if I enter Schengen via another country later and so it can be seen how long I stayed this time.)
His reply was, "I'm not allowed to stamp it."

That didn't really answer my question (I just wanted confirmation that swiping makes a record and no need then for a stamp) so I asked him, "If you're not allowed to stamp me out, why did the official in Germany stamp me in?"
His attitude became tetchy and his reply was, "I'm not allowed to (stamp it)."
I wasn't in a position to stand there and discuss more as our connection was late and we had to rush to get the next plane anyway.
Any of that make sense?

(Just in case anyone wonders if there was a miscommunication due to language, this was in German which I speak well enough and his answer was always a short, "Ich darf nicht," which was easy enough to understand and translate.)

Last edited by Mark604; May 13th 2021 at 4:29 am.
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Old May 13th 2021, 5:19 am
  #159  
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Default Re: Border Control

Originally Posted by Mark604
Flew recently from a Balkan country direct to Germany - with UK passport.
Immigration stamped it on entry.
Returned via a transit in Vienna yesterday. No passport check between Germany and Austria and Immigration check on leaving Vienna.
Immigration officer didn't stamp passport, but swiped it. I asked him why no stamp out of Schengen area - his reply was "I'm not allowed to."
I asked him if, because he swiped it, there is a record of me leaving Schengen, namely at Austria so as to not affect my 90/180 day allowance ( - if I enter Schengen via another country later and so it can be seen how long I stayed this time.)
His reply was, "I'm not allowed to stamp it."

That didn't really answer my question (I just wanted confirmation that swiping makes a record and no need then for a stamp) so I asked him, "If you're not allowed to stamp me out, why did the official in Germany stamp me in?"
His attitude became tetchy and his reply was, "I'm not allowed to (stamp it)."
I wasn't in a position to stand there and discuss more as our connection was late and we had to rush to get the next plane anyway.
Any of that make sense?

(Just in case anyone wonders if there was a miscommunication due to language, this was in German which I speak well enough and his answer was always a short, "Ich darf nicht," which was easy enough to understand and translate.)
So many obvious flaws in this stamping system
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Old May 13th 2021, 5:30 am
  #160  
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Default Re: Border Control

And I'm pretty sure all of the points you've raised so far in this thread are answered in the Border Guards Handbook.

In this case it may be due to visa-free travel between the Schengen area and Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, North Macedonia, and Serbia.
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Old May 13th 2021, 5:31 am
  #161  
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Default Re: Border Control

Originally Posted by Mark604
Flew recently from a Balkan country direct to Germany - with UK passport.
Immigration stamped it on entry.
Returned via a transit in Vienna yesterday. No passport check between Germany and Austria and Immigration check on leaving Vienna.
Immigration officer didn't stamp passport, but swiped it. I asked him why no stamp out of Schengen area - his reply was "I'm not allowed to."
I asked him if, because he swiped it, there is a record of me leaving Schengen, namely at Austria so as to not affect my 90/180 day allowance ( - if I enter Schengen via another country later and so it can be seen how long I stayed this time.)
His reply was, "I'm not allowed to stamp it."

That didn't really answer my question (I just wanted confirmation that swiping makes a record and no need then for a stamp) so I asked him, "If you're not allowed to stamp me out, why did the official in Germany stamp me in?"
His attitude became tetchy and his reply was, "I'm not allowed to (stamp it)."
I wasn't in a position to stand there and discuss more as our connection was late and we had to rush to get the next plane anyway.
Any of that make sense?

(Just in case anyone wonders if there was a miscommunication due to language, this was in German which I speak well enough and his answer was always a short, "Ich darf nicht," which was easy enough to understand and translate.)
If you hold residence permit/document for a Schengen state, then your passport should not be stamped in or out. If that's the case, then you shouldn't have your passport stamped on entering Germany at Schengen external border, but the Austrian official was correct not to stamp you out. As for scanning your passport, some Schengen states do keep a record of people entering and leaving, but it's usually just for their internal record, plus a few other countries with which they may share their record. You have to wait until the introduction of ETIAS for a comprehensive tracking of passengers in and out of Schengen.
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Old May 13th 2021, 6:50 am
  #162  
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Default Re: Border Control

"In this case it may be due to visa-free travel between the Schengen area and Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, North Macedonia, and Serbia."
I'd need that explaining to me. I'm not a resident of any of those and yes, do not need a visa with a UK passport, but then I don't need a visa for Germany/Austria either so I'm not sure what relevance that has as to why being stamped in, but not out.

"And I'm pretty sure all of the points you've raised so far in this thread are answered in the Border Guards Handbook."
6.2. No entry or exit stamp must be affixed in the following cases:
a) to the travel documents of nationals of the EU Member States, Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Switzerland;

6.1. The travel documents of all third-country nationals must be stamped systematically on entry and exit.

Stamping is also intended to ensure that it is possible to verify, during checks on entry and exit whether the allowed maximum duration of a third-country national’s stay in the area without internal border controls or in the territory of Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus and Romania taken separately– 90 days in any 180 days period – has been respected.

Unless I've missed something, if the UK is not in the EU it is a third country by which nationals should be stamped in and out. No?
"If you hold residence permit/document for a Schengen state, then your passport should not be stamped in or out." - UK resident, not of a Schengen state otherwise the stamping thing I know, is moot.
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Old May 13th 2021, 6:55 am
  #163  
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Default Re: Border Control

Meanwhile, on the UK border:

EU citizens arriving in UK being locked up and expelled

Eugenia, a 24-year-old woman from the Basque region of northern Spain, reached Gatwick on Sunday 2 May on a flight from Bilbao. She planned to look for a job offer, go home to apply for a visa and then return to live with her Spanish boyfriend, an NHS worker who has been in the UK for four years. “I had a return ticket and had filled out an online travel form in which I explained all that,” she said.

At Gatwick, Eugenia had her mobile phone taken away and was locked in a holding room for 24 hours, sleeping on a fold-out bed with half a dozen others. Then she was put on a flight to Barcelona along with another Spanish woman who had arrived for a job interview.

[...]

Eugenia said cabin staff on her return flight had seen several similar cases. Frontier police who met them at Barcelona confirmed this. “They didn’t understand why it was happening. British citizens entering Spain are not treated that way.”

Eugenia said the experience was so traumatic that she had given up on trying to live with her boyfriend. “I’m not going back,” she said. “I don’t want to go through that again. The idea of moving to Britain appals me.”
The rules state you are allowed to visit the UK as a tourist to carry out job interviews then apply for a working visa from outside the UK if you have an offer.

This kind of treatment to please the Mail and Express peanut gallery is only going to backfire on Brits visiting or living in the EU.
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Old May 13th 2021, 7:19 am
  #164  
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Default Re: Border Control

Originally Posted by DLC
Meanwhile, on the UK border:

EU citizens arriving in UK being locked up and expelled



The rules state you are allowed to visit the UK as a tourist to carry out job interviews then apply for a working visa from outside the UK if you have an offer.

This kind of treatment to please the Mail and Express peanut gallery is only going to backfire on Brits visiting or living in the EU.
Since so many people try this trick ('I am only looking for a job offer and then will go home and apply for a work visa'), border force agents are on a lookout and assume people like that will just stay on and work illegally in the black economy. For it to work, you should have a pre-arranged job interview (with documentary evidence) and understanding of how visa sponsorship works. Sometimes it's best not to mention you are looking for a job and just say, when asked, that it's just a tourist visit, with evidence of job or study back home. This has been going on for years for non-EU citizens and now EU citizens fall into the same category.
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Old May 13th 2021, 8:04 am
  #165  
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Default Re: Border Control

If every tourist from neighbouring countries who visits the UK has to show evidence of a job or study back home to avoid being held and expelled then something's gone seriously wrong somewhere.
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