British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Spain (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/)
-   -   Ayamonte - Isla Canela (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/ayamonte-isla-canela-363395/)

newinspain Mar 24th 2006 9:50 am

Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
1 Attachment(s)
I thought I would start this as an alternative to the Costa Esuri thread. I enjoy reading the posts on there but it has gone off track from its original purpose (so I have read) so i thought that i would give this a try.

I have lived in Ayamonte for five months and am loving it here. I have met some great people, been to some lovely places and am really enjoying the fantastic light in this part of the world.

The last week has been a bit rainy and cloudy but today the sun cam out and we were blessed with the clear clue sky again. The temperature went up and a not so good morning turned into a glorious day.

If anyone would like to see photos of the area I would be pleased to take them or show some that I already have. The photo below is of Playa Canela in March 2006 - beautiful!

Isla Canela is also a pleasant area to visit. I have enjoyed walking along the deserted beach throughout the winter and having a few drinks in the many bars in the commercial centre - I am sure that it will be a completely different place in the Summer.

Anyway, it would be good to hear from other people in the area. I will try and answer any questions that you have if you have never been t Ayamonte before.

kind regards

EsuriJohn Mar 24th 2006 6:00 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Hi newinspain,

We have bought a plot on CE so it will be some time yet before we are "in Spain" but we to love the Ayamonte area. We have never been over in July and August but love Punta Morell and Canela out of season just as you say walking on that vast deserted beach and having a drink in one of the bars.

Is your place on the Cinnamon Isle? If so you get plenty of opportunities to take picies, someone posted a stunning one about 5 months ago of sunrise over the Atlantico. So yes post away with your photos so that we can all feel uplifted in the depths of our winter back here in dreary Blighty. It's not the cold or the damp its the light it's just not the same.

Regards,:)

John.

Originally Posted by newinspain

If anyone would like to see photos of the area I would be pleased to take them or show some that I already have. The photo below is of Playa Canela in March 2006 - beautiful!

Isla Canela is also a pleasant area to visit. I have enjoyed walking along the deserted beach throughout the winter and having a few drinks in the many bars in the commercial centre - I am sure that it will be a completely different place in the Summer.

Anyway, it would be good to hear from other people in the area. I will try and answer any questions that you have if you have never been t Ayamonte before.

kind regards


Carol&John Mar 24th 2006 8:53 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Good morning!
I have often wondered how Isla Canela got its name, and how the area/development first came about. Does anyone know of the history?
Regards,
Carol

EsuriJohn Mar 24th 2006 11:31 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Hi Carol&John,

My understanding is that it was the area where the Moors imported/grew their Cinnamon. So it became the Cinnamon Isle "Isla Canela".

Regards. ;)

John



Originally Posted by Carol&John
Good morning!
I have often wondered how Isla Canela got its name, and how the area/development first came about. Does anyone know of the history?
Regards,
Carol


Carol&John Mar 25th 2006 12:19 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Hello again,
Thanks for the lovely photo, newinspain! Yes, I for one would enjoy seeing more photos.
Question about Ayamonte town: what and where is the huge tree (cedar of lebanon?) that I see in many pics of properties for sale when they show a panoramic view towards the river? Just idle curiosity... :o
Regards,
Carol

newinspain Mar 25th 2006 9:24 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
3 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Carol&John
Hello again,
Thanks for the lovely photo, newinspain! Yes, I for one would enjoy seeing more photos.
Question about Ayamonte town: what and where is the huge tree (cedar of lebanon?) that I see in many pics of properties for sale when they show a panoramic view towards the river? Just idle curiosity... :o
Regards,
Carol

Hello Carol,
I am glad that you liked the photo. The info on Isla Canela is correct, it is one of the largest developments in Europe and has been growing for the past 10 years. The fishing village Punta del Moral is a lovely, typically Spanish, area by the sea with very good restaurants - serving the fish caught by local fishermen - and great views over the estuary.
There are more hotels being built in Isla Canela but the style is quite traditional and definitely not high-rise square blocks. The architecture is Spanish, with different levels and colour making them interesting buildings.
Regarding the tree, I am going to have a look for it when i am in town and get back to you about that one.
I have attached some more photos: The Laguna Plaza, Ayamonte - a great place to sit and watch the world go by. Tress around the Laguna Plaza, And The suspension bridge leading to Portugal.

Regards
Tilly

Carol&John Mar 25th 2006 9:51 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Thank you, Tilly, for the photos!
I like the play on shadow in the bridge photo.
Have you been inside the Casa antigua/vieja (not sure of the name, nor the address)? It has a lovely inner patio, which, if photography is allowed, would make for a cool, restful scene. The last time I visited it (2 years ago!), there was an exhibition of local painters; one by the name d'Esury. (Bright, bold colours.) If I remember correctly, there is an area inside the casa vieja showing the huge underground oil storage pots?
Regards,
Carol

Cptnemo Mar 27th 2006 9:58 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by newinspain
The photo below is of Playa Canela in March 2006 - beautiful!

Isla Canela is also a pleasant area to visit. I have enjoyed walking along the deserted beach throughout the winter and having a few drinks in the many bars in the commercial centre - I am sure that it will be a completely different place in the Summer.


Hi
Here is a picture of the packed Playa Canela beach in August last year - not too bad at all !!

I for one cant wait to get back there
Cheers
:)

newinspain Mar 27th 2006 10:05 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 

Originally Posted by Cptnemo
Hi
Here is a picture of the packed Playa Canela beach in August last year - not too bad at all !!

I for one cant wait to get back there
Cheers
:)

They are lovely photos - maybe june and July are a bit busier?

Liz Harrison Mar 27th 2006 6:17 pm

Isla Canela - Ikea Delivery from Seville
 
We have only visited Isla Canela when we delivered some Ikea furniture for a couple so we didn't get chance to explore the area. It is definitely on our list of places to visit - still quite Spanish (which we like). We will be back with our tourist hats on later in the year. Do you know when the feria will be?

In the meantime - enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Originally Posted by newinspain
I thought I would start this as an alternative to the Costa Esuri thread. I enjoy reading the posts on there but it has gone off track from its original purpose (so I have read) so i thought that i would give this a try.

I have lived in Ayamonte for five months and am loving it here. I have met some great people, been to some lovely places and am really enjoying the fantastic light in this part of the world.

The last week has been a bit rainy and cloudy but today the sun cam out and we were blessed with the clear clue sky again. The temperature went up and a not so good morning turned into a glorious day.

If anyone would like to see photos of the area I would be pleased to take them or show some that I already have. The photo below is of Playa Canela in March 2006 - beautiful!

Isla Canela is also a pleasant area to visit. I have enjoyed walking along the deserted beach throughout the winter and having a few drinks in the many bars in the commercial centre - I am sure that it will be a completely different place in the Summer.

Anyway, it would be good to hear from other people in the area. I will try and answer any questions that you have if you have never been t Ayamonte before.

kind regards


MEL & JOHN Mar 27th 2006 6:47 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Hi Tilly

Lovely photo's.........thanks !!

All the best

Mel and John

newinspain Mar 27th 2006 7:40 pm

Re: Isla Canela - Ikea Delivery from Seville
 

Originally Posted by Liz Harrison
We have only visited Isla Canela when we delivered some Ikea furniture for a couple so we didn't get chance to explore the area. It is definitely on our list of places to visit - still quite Spanish (which we like). We will be back with our tourist hats on later in the year. Do you know when the feria will be?

In the meantime - enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ayamonte is a lovely town as well and worh a visit. The feria is in May-June but I am not sure of the exact date.

Tilly :)

Carol&John Mar 27th 2006 7:45 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Buenos dias!
Lovely beach pictures, Cptnemo. Thanks!
Does the Isla Canela beach stretch as far west as the mouth of the Guadiana? Is this area safe for swimming? Are there any stretches of the beach which are particularly suitable for young swimmers? I ask only because I have heard there is a strong current. I wonder if it is to do with being either near the mouth of the river, or the Atlantic ocean. When we holidayed at Zahara de los Atunes (much further south on the CDL), there is definitely a strong current (and I'm a fairly strong swimmer, so please be cautious). I have heard that the beach off Isla da Tavira in the Portuguese Algarve is very safe for swimming (children in mind), as the sand bar acts as protection.
Regards,
Carol

DrakeS Mar 27th 2006 8:09 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
My fiance and I are in the process of purchasing a property at Costa Esuri (latest information on completion date mid May). Once we have completed on the property we are hoping to get married in Ayamonte some time around September or October this year, since the first time we sat in the square we thought that the town hall would be an ideal setting. However, to date I have not been able to get any information from any source to find out what is necessary as far as paperwork is concerned, and how I can check availability for the ceremony.

If anybody out there has any information at all, or any contact at the town hall, I would be very happy to hear from them.

Carol&John Mar 27th 2006 8:57 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Hi DrakeS,
http://www.ukinspain.com/english/Con...ns=102&lang=en
Try this link for an information leaflet on "Marriage" in Spain, if you haven't got this already. I think one of you has to be a resident in Spain? Not sure, though.
Also, try an online enquiry to the ayuntamiento in Ayamonte: www.ayto-ayamonte.es/portal2/ with your best spanish to "contraer matrimonio".
Good luck!
Carol

DrakeS Mar 27th 2006 9:41 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 

Originally Posted by Carol&John
Hi DrakeS,
http://www.ukinspain.com/english/Con...ns=102&lang=en
Try this link for an information leaflet on "Marriage" in Spain, if you haven't got this already. I think one of you has to be a resident in Spain? Not sure, though.
Also, try an online enquiry to the ayuntamiento in Ayamonte: www.ayto-ayamonte.es/portal2/ with your best spanish to "contraer matrimonio".
Good luck!
Carol

Many thanks for the info.

Cptnemo Mar 28th 2006 4:45 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 

Originally Posted by Carol&John
Buenos dias!
Does the Isla Canela beach stretch as far west as the mouth of the Guadiana? Is this area safe for swimming? Are there any stretches of the beach which are particularly suitable for young swimmers?
Regards,
Carol

Buenas Tardes

Bit difficult to describe, but when you drive into Isla Canela there are 2 vicious speed bumps close together, just over a bridge - on the right there is a canal and some houses - basically we've walked along the beach and got nearly as far as that.

As for swimming/children - the tides are quite strong but I dont think they are too bad, I think you can only judge for yourselves - the majority of people seem to go out to about the same distance.

Cheers
:)

Carol&John Apr 1st 2006 7:26 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 

Originally Posted by Cptnemo
...As for swimming/children - the tides are quite strong but I dont think they are too bad, I think you can only judge for yourselves - the majority of people seem to go out to about the same distance.
Cheers
:)

Buenos dias,
Sorry for my delay in replying, but thanks for the information, Cptnemo.
There is information about the webcam on the eyeonislacanela site, too.
Regards,
Carol

un-mundo Apr 3rd 2006 11:50 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
I remember Ayamonte 30 years ago - not been back since! It was always a beautiful town. I went down the river once, on a weather aborted trip to N.Africa and it was beautiful, so unspoiled. The current is worth watching, though, especially for children, let them swim but give them a line. It was always my dream to buy one of those old disused and derelect custom posts on the side of the river. I dare say they are a vast golf-complex these days.

Carol&John Apr 3rd 2006 8:49 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Hola un-mundo,
Thanks for your reply. I also would be cautious about children using inflatibles in the water (unsupervised), as they unknowingly could be pulled along the current at some speed.
Please tell more about your journey down the Guadiana! Where did you embark?
Hasta pronto,
Carol

un-mundo Apr 4th 2006 5:28 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 

Originally Posted by Carol&John
Hola un-mundo,
Thanks for your reply. I also would be cautious about children using inflatibles in the water (unsupervised), as they unknowingly could be pulled along the current at some speed.
Please tell more about your journey down the Guadiana! Where did you embark?
Hasta pronto,
Carol

Our original plan was to sail from Portimao across to Ceuta but after about ten hours a Spanish fishing boat scared the life out of us by changing course to come along side (we thought we were going to be sold into white slavery or something ghastly), to warn us of very bad weather ahead. As the sea was like a millpond at that stage, with next to no wind, they saw the disbelief in our eyes and kindly handed us over a huge whicker basket of langoustine, which they clearly thought was going to be our last supper.

We pressed on, foolishly, and the weather changed dramatically, with huge waves, a massive swell and a rather nasty wind. We turned tail and headed for the shore. We made it, safely, to Vila Real at the mouth of the Guardiana, having to turn around and rescue a German boat who was in difficulties coming into the harbour - we were, effectively, surfing into port.

After that experience the three of us were feeling rather less brave, so we decided to abandon Ceuta for another time (possibly another lifetime), and gently pootled up the Guardiana for three or four days before turning around and heading back to the open sea and around the coast to return to Portimao. It was a lovely meander and we hardly saw anyone apart from a few smuggling boats scurrying backwards and forwards across the river to Spain to pick up cheap booze and ciggies and take them back to Portugal. A spanish customs boat boarded us at one point, to drink a few bottles of wine with us and share some baccy of the whacky variety. We also met a delightful old French guy who lived in his boat on the river, he was an artist and we had dinner with him on his boat. All in all, it was a delightful trip. We didn't really disembark anywhere that had a name, just took the boat's tender a few times to row ashore and sit on the bank, and swam lazily around the boat. We had plenty of food and even more drink and it was all very pleasant.

poollounger Apr 4th 2006 11:26 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Un-Mondo a great post. I remember sitting in the bar of the Parador at Ayamonte about a year ago when a ketch came sailing along and turned to head up the river, it's sails silhouetted against the setting sun. Do you still sail?? I have a boat on the lower Thames, and maybe, just maybe, one day I may have the nerve to sail it to Spain. I harbour dreams of exploring the north African coast. :)

un-mundo Apr 4th 2006 12:58 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Thanks for your comment, pool. I've had a few lucky times in my life, and that was certainly one of them! Sometimes it is good when the plans go wrong. The sad thing is that I'd hate to do that trip again. I dread to think what hideous connurbations have been built down that stretch of a beautiful river. Golf complexes and water sucking urbanisations. I prefer to remember it as it was. Call me old fashioned.

Carol&John Apr 4th 2006 9:27 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Hola y buenos dias,
Thanks un-mundo for your post, what a great story! Not surprising how the weather can change rapidly out in the open ocean, and coming ashore on a huge wave. There was a tidal wave (maybe 2 centuries ago?) which hit Vila Real, Santo Antonio, San Marim areas. No idea of the devastation caused to Ayamonte, but can only assume it also did. This is a similar story sadly for many fishing/coastal communities throughout the world, I believe.
The area on both sides of the Guadiana will have changed dramatically in the last 30 years since you visited, how can it not have? "Time waits for no man", etc, etc... Our first visit to Ayamonte was en route from Tavira to Sevilla, oh maybe 23 years ago, with the ferryboat crossing the river. Memories include the light, the dust, and the heat, but we returned for more (on holiday, not resident, so I know I do not qualify in some people's notebook :rolleyes: ) four years ago. I was pleased to find in Ayamonte old town some reminders of memories from childhood; like the "modista" shop, the scent in the "peluqueria" packed with women of a certain age and their "abanicos" wafting frantically, corner sweet shops, the traditional "tomar un paseo" with children turned out immaculately in white clothing, and, most important, a polite and hospitable people. Has this changed in the last 4 years? Maybe the shops have moved along? Perhaps there are more visitors? Ah, the old debate: "Rose tinted spectacles". In 10 years time, who knows what I'll be able to see? Es verdad?
Regards,
Carol

EsuriJohn Apr 5th 2006 1:18 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Hi Carol&John,

It was the great Iberian earthquake of about 1785 which left great devastation across Portugal causing great loss of life in Lisbon and surrounding areas. The aftermath was a Tsunami which swept Villa Real away and it was rebuilt on a grid pattern just like, but before New York in just 5 months by the Marquis de Pombal.

Regards, ;)

John.

Originally Posted by Carol&John
Hola y buenos dias,
Thanks un-mundo for your post, what a great story! Not surprising how the weather can change rapidly out in the open ocean, and coming ashore on a huge wave. There was a tidal wave (maybe 2 centuries ago?) which hit Vila Real, Santo Antonio, San Marim areas. No idea of the devastation caused to Ayamonte, but can only assume it also did. This is a similar story sadly for many fishing/coastal communities throughout the world, I believe.
The area on both sides of the Guadiana will have changed dramatically in the last 30 years since you visited, how can it not have? "Time waits for no man", etc, etc... Our first visit to Ayamonte was en route from Tavira to Sevilla, oh maybe 23 years ago, with the ferryboat crossing the river. Memories include the light, the dust, and the heat, but we returned for more (on holiday, not resident, so I know I do not qualify in some people's notebook :rolleyes: ) four years ago. I was pleased to find in Ayamonte old town some reminders of memories from childhood; like the "modista" shop, the scent in the "peluqueria" packed with women of a certain age and their "abanicos" wafting frantically, corner sweet shops, the traditional "tomar un paseo" with children turned out immaculately in white clothing, and, most important, a polite and hospitable people. Has this changed in the last 4 years? Maybe the shops have moved along? Perhaps there are more visitors? Ah, the old debate: "Rose tinted spectacles". In 10 years time, who knows what I'll be able to see? Es verdad?
Regards,
Carol


Carol&John Apr 5th 2006 3:18 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Hi John,
That'll be the one, hitting Vila Real de Santo Antonio and Castro Marim - getting my saints and geography mixed up. Tidal wave must have caused devastation in Ayamonte area, too? Any information? Perhaps the Guadiana river slowed down the force?
Which reminds me, the webcam overlooking the Guadiana is working. See www.eyeonislacanela.com and click on the bottom of the home page where it says Webcam! However, it might have stopped for the day (5pm?)
Regards,
Carol

poollounger Apr 5th 2006 4:10 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
What great posts and memories this thread has invoked. Although I decided Costa Esuri was not for me, hopefully it will be as tasteful as an urbanisation can be, and the folks who buy there will not overwhelm Ayamonte, which I thought was still charming. The agent who drove us around took us to a restaurant a little out of the town by the estuary, like a scruffy taverna in old Greece, cars parked 3 feet away, but the food was simple and delicious. Loved the little alleys of the town and the restaurants sandwiched between. No tales of old ladies etc to recount, but remember one very brave man in full drag sitting all alone at a table in the alley. At lunchtime. No attempt to be a woman, just black velvet, make up and a shaved head. For a moment I though I had been transported to 1930's Berlin.. and no I am not that old, just read too many novels and seen too many films!!

EsuriJohn Apr 5th 2006 5:57 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Hi Carol&John,

I wonder if Ayamonte was restricted to the older part up a very steep slope so that it would "only" be the fishing community at the bottom of the hill that would be hit.

Looked several times at the webcam yesterday both before and after it was operational so that was no use. First looked at about 10 this morning and then throughout the day on and off dull grey and overcast every time. Not overjoyed with that but it will get better roll on summer!

Regards,:cool: :D

John.

Originally Posted by Carol&John
Hi John,
That'll be the one, hitting Vila Real de Santo Antonio and Castro Marim - getting my saints and geography mixed up. Tidal wave must have caused devastation in Ayamonte area, too? Any information? Perhaps the Guadiana river slowed down the force?
Which reminds me, the webcam overlooking the Guadiana is working. See www.eyeonislacanela.com and click on the bottom of the home page where it says Webcam! However, it might have stopped for the day (5pm?)
Regards,
Carol


Carol&John Apr 5th 2006 8:48 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Hi again,
The webcam is fun, but not a patch on being there, I'm sure, whatever the weather. Oh well... today, I've seen lots of cars, some people walking past, and 2 cars parked opposite the camera - extra security? :rolleyes:
Poollounger, people watching is a great pasttime. Many a great thought for a story/novel has started over a cuppa... :beer: (imagine a cortado)
Regards,
Carol

un-mundo Apr 5th 2006 8:59 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Goodness, what a trip down memory lane/river I had last night!

There's an Altea webcam that I gaze at, longingly, from time to time when in the UK. It's not quite "the real thing" but at least it doesn't close down at 5pm!

poollounger Apr 5th 2006 6:35 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
How tempting for those of us who live in Britain to have a webcam for daily fixes of one's house, pool etc etc. Imagine the envy if it's let though as you see others frolicking in your pool while you face grey skies over here.. mind you it looks like it's going to be yet another lovely sunny day today. Roll on the end of April!!!

dazzle Apr 5th 2006 10:17 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
[QUOTE=poollounger] Imagine the envy if it's let though as you see others frolicking in your pool.....QUOTE]

Imagine the court case when they discover the camera :scared:

poollounger Apr 6th 2006 8:10 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
[QUOTE=dazzle]

Originally Posted by poollounger
Imagine the envy if it's let though as you see others frolicking in your pool.....QUOTE]

Imagine the court case when they discover the camera :scared:

How true.....especially when you spot your own partner frolicking with that gorgeous blonde when they are supposed to be on a businesss trip to Birmingham!! Seriously, wonder when the first case for invasion of privacy will surface?? There are some great weather cams all over Britain...excellent one on the Isle of Sheppey Yacht Club site that gives views of the Thames Estuary, but no close ups or faces.

dazzle Apr 6th 2006 8:25 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
You are outrageous poollounger :D

kevray Apr 7th 2006 6:49 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 

Originally Posted by DrakeS
My fiance and I are in the process of purchasing a property at Costa Esuri (latest information on completion date mid May). Once we have completed on the property we are hoping to get married in Ayamonte some time around September or October this year, since the first time we sat in the square we thought that the town hall would be an ideal setting. However, to date I have not been able to get any information from any source to find out what is necessary as far as paperwork is concerned, and how I can check availability for the ceremony.

If anybody out there has any information at all, or any contact at the town hall, I would be very happy to hear from them.

We got married in Rhodes and found the Greek embassy in London was fantastic, they gave a huge amount of help including passing on details and paper work to the local mayor who eventually performed the ceremony. so I would advise get in touch with the Spanish embassy, they will help you, remember to get all docs copied at least 3 times and get them certified as genuine copies.
All the best
Kevray

dazzle Apr 7th 2006 7:08 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
I don't know anything about this subject but from what I've read, it's a very long and complex procedure to get married in Spain. I think it's so bad that most expat's head to Gibraltar for the ceremony.


Try this link
http://www.idealspain.com/pages/Info...n/weddings.htm

Carol&John Apr 9th 2006 7:55 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Good morning!
Could anyone report back on the start (yesterday, Palm Sunday) of the Semana Santa processions in the area?
Thanks,
Carol

Carol&John Apr 11th 2006 10:21 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
Hi again,
Did anyone see "El burriquito"?

Carol&John Apr 14th 2006 10:49 pm

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 
I see the Oracle webpage is being updated. :)

amanda&charles Apr 15th 2006 2:29 am

Re: Ayamonte - Isla Canela
 

Originally Posted by Carol&John
I see the Oracle webpage is being updated. :)


What is the address of the webpage for the oracle?


All times are GMT -12. The time now is 4:43 am.

Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.