and, of course, you can even go into a shop and buy a kilo of bananas without taking out a bank loan, and that's every day.

Was in Alicante, beats Perth hands down in all things bar Western Australian sky high salaries (which is obviously a major factor for many)

which comes first - the high cost of living or the high salaries to pay for it ??

problem is cost of living can go down - or be driven down by the consumer
but no one will want to give up their sky high salaries

[QUOTE=Domino;10483862]which comes first - the high cost of living or the high salaries to pay for it ??

problem is cost of living can go down - or be driven down by the consumer
but no one will want to give up their sky high salaries

[/QUOTE

Looking at the way things are in Oz, apart from sporting activities, there is very little to do (not much history!). We seem to spend most of our time in 'Westfields' shopping center (very boring!), and with the dreadful way they drive here, we are lucky to get there alive!!!!!!
Increased trade with Asia, with it's cheaper labour costs, will be their downfall (most electrical goods are now made in China).
Driving round NSW, I have noticed a large number of work places closed down, with 'For Sale' notices outside. So I really think that there are big changes ahead of them! I don't blame the guys for wanting to get away from the place.
The only thing I will say to them is, before buying in Spain, rent a property first and make sure that the area is suitable for you. It is very easy to see things through 'rose tinted' glasses.

John.

there should be plenty of history, the problem is many people have used their spare time to eradicate that history as it doesn't suit their new way of life in what they want to treat as virgin land

sounds just like the UK and a direction Spain is taking.
and as to Spanish driving.........

I remember the time that Australia could only think with a British/European head, everything had to be imported using the returning empty ships that had taken the cheap lamb. Australia is part of the Far East and is now realising it cannot remain aloof from what is happening on its own doorstep.
It is a trend that has been gaining speed since the Marshall Plan gave Japan a new manufacturing base. And Japan is suffering as well.

Yeah, its all gone pear-shaped so lets move on instead of staying and trying to work it through. Bodes well for the attitude in any new country they should happen to flit to next.

that is so true, but how many will just pack a bag and arrive ??
Spain is a large country - not as large as Australia, but it would appear to be far more diverse. But finishing at 2pm will suit them, although few IME will want to go back to work at 5pm.

`

[QUOTE=Saxy;10484930] I´m with you. I could add to critique of the place but of course someone here will point out that Spain is no utopia (I kind of am aware of that, not sure how anyone could not be).
Australia simply lives off the back of two things, a) low population b) massive mining resources. This creates an overall prosperity that is not in anyway the result of any kind of progressive business practices, imagination or even hard work.
In my view the country is a kind of economic hoax. I should say I had a good life there and none of this is sour grapes. It is a country that might well suit certain types of people but not me. Basically, I simply don´t enjoy living in a place where conversation consists of how much one´s property went up in the last few years, how Australia is the only place anyone sane could possibly want to live in and sport.
Now I am a pretty liberal left-wing kind of guy but might handle racism if it is at least backed up by a decent argument. The ignorant racism and stupidity of that place on the other hand....such as the near universal belief there that the Chinese spend their entire time plotting how to invade Australia (China has a 6000 year history and has only ever invaded nearby territories to itself), or the idea that the entire planet wants to move to Australia!
I have no doubt that such views might exist in Spain. At least Spain has loads of atmosphere and charm, amazing food (I find Australian food plastic and dull) Awesome history, loads to do and explore beyond the beach and barbie(although that exists in spades too). At least in Spain I can get on a train and head to Paris or Amsterdam and am not stuck on the far side of the planet in a bubble. To go as a family to Europe from Australia costs around $20000 and the rest.
Spain isnt absurdly expensive like Australia.
Finally, I find the Spanish nicer people than Australians. I have been here a while and no-one yet has wanted my money for anything but what they deservedly were owed. Australians are fake, have little concept of genuine friendship, and the place seems to be vacuum designed to do little else but suck your money. I might also add that I spent years in the UK....and did NOT find British people like that-I found them fairly decent and honest. They certainly did not spend all day talking up the UK-more like the opposite which I kind of admired. (In fact living in the UK kind of opened my eyes to Australia being not all that, as I come from a family that regards the idea of leaving Australia as virtually a capital crime or a reason to have someone commited as insane).
So yeh, my advice would be go back to Alicante. I should add other Australians do think along my lines, not everyone there loves the place. All that said I am going to Spain more for its pull than the push of Australia.
All that said I am, as I go through the steps, daunted by what I am doing-almost a bit terrified. Spain is culturally and geographically very far from Australia. I am well aware things could all go awry. This is a far cry from being posted by a rather benevolent employer to London. Any advice or tips appreciated.

Ok so the beauracratic headache has begun.

As mentioned in an earlier post I was given clear instructions at the Girona National Police in writing that in order to become a resident of Spain I needed to show 5000 euros in any bank account, private health cover and a passport.
Went to see a lawyer today to help me with the process and was told totally different story. That I need 15000 euros and 30000 euros per family member sponsored placed in a Spanish bank (bear in mind that I have an EU passport, and my kids can get passports easily). Anyway I whinged about the money and he said I could get around this by registering a company and showing a business plan at a cost of 250 euros. Seems a bit too easy a way to get out of dishing up over 100000 euros!
´
Now rather confused, although was totally expecting this sort of stuff.

the only place you'll get a definitive answer is at the extranjería - only they know what they will accept

so I'd believe them over the lawyer any day of the week

the requirements the lawyer is stating sound more like those for non-EU citizens - I'd say the lawyer has no clue tbh

even a non-lucrative visa for a non-EU citizen 'only' requires something like $75,000 US (just over 53,000 € )

10 years in spain taught me that there are just about no conclusive regulations, just a constant chaotic beaurocracy, i have been given the runaround, told it was not possible etc, then same place next day told to come back with filled in form and receipt fot 10 eur costs from bank...it is somewhat crazy!

I would be tempted to drive down to some little town in valencia and pop into a gestoria and ask them what you need to do, might be a very different story.

once you get your NIE number, a padron, a bank account, a few bills in your name anything is possible...eventually

Indeed I felt as if this lawyer was doing a lot of residency applications for non eu, and visa requiring nationalities. He kept referring to cases from senegal and china in the conversation....but who knows?

Indeed I put it to him that according to what he was saying it would make no difference if I did the process on my Australian passport or my Polish one....he said yes to this. If this is the case, as far as freedom of movement is concerned an EU passport is worth little in Spain anymore!

he clearly has no clue at all..........

I though that was a mandatory requirement for Spanish lawyers.

duh!! silly me

There was a great dump of snow a couple of weeks ago. Conditions are great at the mo. Especially now the temperature has dropped again. If you go make sure you get yourself over to the Lagoona side. It's much less busy and tons of cruzie blue runs (as well as the famous Med/African coast view from the top of the lift I'm getting itchy feet just thinking about it!