cricketman

Go and work in the UK then if its easier

The Spanish system isnt perfect of course, but they have the right to choose how to administer their social security.

Just seen Lynnxa's comment...

Yes of course it is harder for British people in Spain. We are immigrants in a new country. Life is always harder for the immigrant because they move over with no friends, family or useful contacts. But one has to work with the Spanish system not keep complaining that it is not like the UK.

Like any immigrant, people move to a new country for a better life, whether that be economically or in terms of lifestyle. Things like taxes, social security, job situation etc should all pay a part in the decision. The sad thing is many Brits move to Spain just because they dont like their life in the UK, not because they like Spain! They actually know very little if anything about Spain and how it works when they move over.

Thanks to the EU, British people have the right to do that, but then tough luck if it doesnt work out. Knowledge is power and ignorance is bliss to many

In Spain, if you run out of money and can't pay the bills you'll have to take the streets and beg (like I've seen Brits do) or move back to the UK and find a council house. As far as I know, there are no other options.

lynnxa

precisely - which is of course why so many are going back just now

and why we are (almost) all recommending that now isn't a good time to be starting out here in Spain, unless you have a good, guaranteed income

Rotor

My beef is that the SS system here is ridiculous and anti small business ,you even have to register for VAT regardless of turnover, this forces thousands of people to work illegally as their only other option would be begging!

It`s time Spain opened its eyes and had a look at countries for a more workable system.

Business is much easier in the UK /rest of the western world and I was fortunate enough to have made sufficient in the UK to keep me in a good lifestyle here, I choose to work as I`m not the type to laze around ,drinking myself to death like to many expats.

cricketman

Yes I know, my OH is self-employed in Spain. The ayuntamiento provided a free course so she could learn how to file and submit her income, VAT and taxes every quarter. You can do this online which is cool. Of course you'd have to speak Spanish to know this

I dont think Spain is anti-small business at all. Spain has a really high percentage of small businesses, especially in the areas that British people tend to live.

There are also lots of grants you can get. For hiring a young person or an old person, to replacing your IT system or for starting your business if you are a certain demographic. British people often dont know about these because of the language thing again.

Rotor

A huge percentage of small business`s operate illegally ,such as paying workers black money etc , they could not survive any other way.
As for grants its a farce, the criteria rarley makes it viable for small business`s but great for the likes of thieves such as telefonica.

JLFS

There are a lot of amall business in Spain, thats true, but a lot of them are because there was no real employment opotunities in other fields.

I know of one case where the son, who has studied naval engineering, but at 31 has had not found a job.

His parents run a small bar, they reached retirment age a couple of years ago, but instead of selling the business on, the son took over.

Yes, he is just about making a living, he is a small business man, but he is doing a job that neither he or his parents wanted for him.
I think you will find lost of people running small business in this way, although not all will admit it.

They just scrape by, moneywise, and financial help for his parents is often needed.

Veleta

I managed to successfully get two grants and I am a small business.

The great thing is that once you are "on the radar", whenever a new grant comes out they telephone you to see if you want to apply for it.

I had a telephone call this week from the Camara de Comercio letting me know that a new grant for women has just gone online. I'm going to find out about it but haven't had time yet.

cricketman

Oh absolutely, I recognise that. We have found it difficult to get a decent job in Spain. And outside Barcelona and Madrid the wages are terrible.

But you can have a reasonably good quality of life on little money here as we know, though you do need some of it!

Top tip is do a degree in something useful like law or engineering. Our friends and family who do that have great jobs and good salaries. If you do an art history, linguistics or other such degree unless you move abroad or get very lucky you'll end up working in a shop/bar.

Rotor

Ive been autonomo for 5 years paying tax etc but never had one call,My office is open every day

Madridboy

I completely agree about having to fork out a lot of money to do things legit over here. For the first year I put people on contracts and after that did everything black, was the only way for me to get by.
Now an employee working 6.5 hours a day, 5 days a week for good money......often wonder why I ever decided to leave my trade years ago and become self employed.

JLFS

The number of companies that HAVE to do that, as you say just to get by, are very high.

Some of the most successful bussiness in Spain did some form of "fiddle " at the beginning.

Many still do a little bit of "cheating the system" by laying workers off, then taking them on again, all thought out to take away the sting of having to pay the 45 days a year compo to get rid of an employee.

The payoff to get rid of an employee in the UK is nowhere near 45 days for each year worked, even the biggest companies are not so heavily "punished".

It seems to me that the Spanish government puts a lot of the burden that the UK government pays, on to the shoulders of the employer, be it small or large.

There is something drastically wrong with a system whereby a little old man in his bar or whatever" cannot afford to get rid of his assisstant of say 10 years, because he cannot scrape together the amound he would have to pay to get rid of him or her.

So he continues to employ the person, and the pay off keeps mounting all the time that person is employed, at a rate of 45 days a year, it is a catch 22 situation.

For Spain to prosper some big changes will have to be made, I am not saying Spain is all wrong and UK is all right, but the reason why there are so many small bussiness in Spain, is because, they cannot afford to grow......

Most start as a one man band and continue through the generations still as a one man band......

bil

In the UK, the % of people employed by small businesses is high. Small businesses are an important part of the economy, and should be encouraged, not handed a ball and chain as soon as they start.

Casa Santo Estevo

I know that Bil, but we are on a forum about Spain and living in Spain. I just responded to your comment about you thought would be hard. I was just confirming it was, but it is not impossible to run a Spanish company. After all there are a lot of small companies in Spain.

Emma-Louise

Does anyone have more information on the nil payments? Someone mentioned it nearer the beginning of this thread...

My unemployment benefits run out in 2 months and I am going to start a business.....I applied for 2 grants back in June that I am waiting to hear from...... but if i do not get any help I will have to delay becoming legal!

I simply cannot afford to pay the 265€ a month whilst the business is starting up!

cricketman

I think as has been mentioned before the only thing you can do is dont declare the business until your first customer wants to pay (that could be a good few months!).

Other than that, there is no way to avoid the payments.

However, as you are female and (I'm guessing) under 35 you will be entitled to reduced payments (I think around 180 euros a month) for the first 2 years of being autonomo.