I would merely say that the concept of heaven and hell isn't logical, and whatever there is after death, has to have a logical structure. Cause has to precede effect, and so on.

Better hope that the religions, especially christianity have got it wrong.

Hands up anyone who has lived with a jealous partner? Hell, isn't it?

Now imagine living with an omnipotent, jealous god who knows your every thought, and runs his own private torture chamber where those who don't come up to scratch are tortured for eternity. No redemption, no mercy, no end to it.

Hmmm. Jealous, omnipotent, merciless and lacking in empathy.

[QUOTE=bil;95427
Hmmm. Jealous, omnipotent, merciless and lacking in empathy.[/QUOTE]

For the moment , I thought you were telling us about Goran Ivanisevic , experiencing Novak Djokovic as world No 1 and Wimbledon champion .
Then I realised that Goran is not omnipotent...

Atheism means having no belief in gods - not quite the same as being certain there are none.

The definitions of these two words and the beliefs/lack of belief behind them have probably wasted more discussion time than any other unimportant subject.

Quite, however from what little we know at present, the presence of our planet and the Universe itself may not yet appear logical to many.

For instance what came before the so-called big bang and from whence came the materials that may have caused it ?

Until such time, if ever, certain things are fully understood and scientifically proven beyond any doubt, there will understandably never be any shortage of those with their own personnel agendas and beliefs.

Want to define the difference? To me atheism means being certain that there are none. Uncertainty involves a more agnostic approach.

I doubt strongly that there is such a thing as a truly omnipotent being. Remember, to ants we probably appear as gods, it all depends on your point of view.

The view of religions, that you have to say your prayers, that prayers are answered, is a cynical abuse of people's inability to cope with random incidents.

The idea of a god interferring in human events to make things better for one of his little pets is ridiculous and illogical.

I remember one board where I was on after the plane 'crash' where the pilot landed on the river. Some religious little buttkisser posted a picture of two divine hands gently lowering the plane onto the river. After I had scraped the vomit off the keyboard I got into trouble for asking that a balancing picture of a divine hand giving two fingers to the two towers be posted.


Ooooo thankey baby jeezers for saving the plane.......

Ralph, Huey, Bert, I'm calling Señor Roca on the porcelain telephone.....

So, because I can't visit Pluto, should I claim that's where Mickey Mouse lives?

I can assure you that whatever created the universe, and whatever was before it will all have a logical cause, and logical effects, which when you grasp all the steps, etc, you wll see that it is just so. Logical.

Everything is logical. People believe in fairies and crystals because they lack scientific knowledge, they can't or won't apply critical reasoning, they can't cope with random, and all to often they prefer fantasy to reality.

I lived with her for too long - but since the divorce I have felt much much better

I liked the female commedienne who was slagging her ex off, she said that she put up with the misery of living with him because she dreaded the thought that he might leave her, find someone else and be happy.

some people say we are living in a goldfish bowl.
so what is outside the goldfish bowl ??
and how come the explosion didnt break the bowl ? - or it did but we don't know about it yet !

but isnt masochism the keystone of all bad marriages ?

The best illustration I have heard of the big bang can be seen at the quantum level.

You would think that if you sucked every single atom of air out of a sealed container, then there would be nothing in there.

Wrong. Hard vaccuum, when looked at close up is actually a quantum 'foam' that contains massive amounts of energy. Throughout it, protons and anti protons (a proton is effectively a hydrogen nucleus) appear, and then combine, destroying each other to release the energy.

Quarks can appear out of nowhere, the ultimate free lunch.

Given that matter is just a frozen state of energy, it's feasible to visualise the proto universe as a quantum foam loaded with energy, that enough matter appeared, and it was imbalanced wrto matter and antimatter to leave a small chunk left over, which then triggered a collapse of the system that has been labelled as inflation.

From that first split second, the rest of the univere's life can be explained using very pedestrian, degree level physics.

and some good.....

I believe that a belief in total logic is as flawed as a belief in fairies.

Luckily, most of us steer a course between the two. It's freely acknowledged that the general public will never be told the truth about certain events because they don't need to know - and the knowledge itself is too dangerous for general consumption.

The true cause of that helicopter crash in Afghanistan will never be revealed, and a hand-held rocket launcher fired by a mad and bad Taliban is more acceptable to the Western public than the act of God for which turbaned people across the Muslim world will fall on their knees to thank their God for.

What are the ones that don't care either way called?

No I'm not going to define the difference. How can anyone be certain there are no gods? If anyone says they know there are no gods I would ask them to prove it - I'd like to see them try.

I too doubt very strongly that there are any gods but I can't be certain. I'm not however going to waste any time just on the off-chance there is one.