the sun is shining

Hi,
I totally agree with you on this one, Thats one of the many reasons we have decided to leave, i live in a very nice area and I've had to go out of my home to tell about 15 youths who decide to hang around swearing drinking and throwing there empty bottles in our gardens.

Thing is my husband has worked very very hard for the things we have and i can not tolerate these kids who want to abuse our things, when i go out side admittedly i am shaking in my boots, however i will not back down and show i am scared ( my husband hates this) i first ask them nicely to move on which most of the time they do sometimes some of the girls aged about 15 or 16 start calling me a f---ing who-e and to f--k off inside, at this point i walked straight up to them and tell them if they dont f--k off themselves they will end up in hospital with a f--cking tube up there nose.

To be fair it is bang out of order for me to say this to them but i will not be scared of kids who lack respect and i will never show fear even though i am terrified.

thing is half of these kids there parents have no idea what they are doing or what they are like and would be totally shocked at there kids behaviour, i have a friend who is a teacher and she says the lack of support from people and all the new laws they have no right to discipline these kids and these kids know it, i dont know if the kids in Spain are like the ones in the uk i have never seen it so i am hoping it will be thug free when we move over.

ironporer

I might also add these:

1) The laid back lifestyle of the Spaniards. Whether it's having 'vermut' at a local establishment with friends, or tapas before lunch or after hours or a paella in the country on the weekend- there is no people I have ever known that know how to forget the stress of the everyday grind.

2) The warmth of a people so willing to take in 'Extranjeros" so quickly, as long as the foreigners at least try and want to be a part of their land.

3) Most beautiful women in the world...but I'm married to one so I may be prejudiced.

4) The fact that Spain for the most part continues to be a society deeply rooted in it's past history and culture- but has embraced completely the digital age and all that comes with it (my favorite mental image of Spain will always be the 75 year old man from the 'pueblo'... boina on his head, a piece of rope for a belt, standing outside the typical 'old man's cafe' where the geezers play cards and pass the afternoon- talking on a modern flip phone telling his wife he'd be late)

5) The miracle of modern Spain- in less than 30 years evolving from a repressive, isolated military/theocratic dictatorship to a modern Democratic republic. Hats off to a Monarchy that actually DOES something by setting a proper example and guiding their country- rather than filling up the the gossip rags with their pathetic family disfunctionality.

jdr

You got that spot on ironporer

rugbymatt

Have to say i agree in many parts but Racism does exist in Spain, as much as i love the country it does! I have seen some ugly episodes and lets not forget that Arabs are still called Moro's, and the treatment of the Gitano's is diabolical! That said they are a far more tolerant people once they know you and will accept anyone who makes the effort, which is a lesson we could all learn not only regards foreigners but also our own people!

Well done Ironporer for your post! Brilliant! I have sent you k for that, hope you got it, thoroughly deserved! The whole power transition after The Generalissimos death was a testament to a people who have through the ages proved their resolve and character!

Cape Blue

I agree with most of your points, but I would suggest that part of the miracle of modern Spain has been delivered via the funding of the EU. Around 40% of all new large infrastructure - roads, water, rail etc has been funded by the taxes of car workers in Stuttgart, doctors in Birmingham and programmers in Amsterdam. Only fairly recently 80% of the Madrid metro was EU-funded (hardly a poor area of Spain).

Whilst the Spanish are chilling out with the long lunch & siesta and are avoiding huge amounts of tax payments with dinero negro and undervalued properties, the EU contributors are working longer & harder to provide them with better roads and infrastructure than is often found in the UK.

I'd be pretty welcoming to northern European foreigners if they were paying for everything.

rugbymatt

Bold statement considering France sucks up 47% of ALL of Europe's agricultural subsidies and that until those payments were made for the infrastructure of Spain it was the poor man of the EU. Isn't that what EU subsidies are for? Wont it now be the turn of Poland to recieve such huge payouts, then Bulgaria, and who knows one day Turkey?
Dont confuse the laid back attitude with a lack of industrious in Spain, have a look at their record for completing Major national projects, and some how they manage to bring in the largest percentage of olive oil of any country from the trees just in time!
I think IP's point was that just 30 years ago it was in the grips of one of Europe's worse dictators of modern times, and somehow they have managed not only to create THE most successful tourist industry in the world but also learn to live with a legacy of hatred and intolerance in just a lifetime, and do it well!!!

Cape Blue

I wasn't talking about CAP subsidies, they are a complete disgrace and as you say France soaks up most of them - we currently pay them to grow grapes they can't sell which are then turned into very expensive bio-fuel.

I agree that Spain has done marvellously to progress from their mid-70's situation, I was only pointing out that when someone else from outside pays for 40% of all large infrastructure projects it makes the process of running a country one hell of a lot easier.

I agree that regional capital funding has the ability to accelerate growth and can offer greater markets more quickly for those providing the funding. I do find it difficult to understand how Spain (& Ireland) can still have their snouts in the EU trough when their economies are now so much more developed - this should have stopped 5 years ago. My experience of Spain is that its real economy must be around 50% larger than its declared one due to black money and (illegal) tax avoidance - the levels are huge and the Spanish are avoiding paying their share of both their own development and paying into the EU for the poorer east European economies.

rugbymatt

Unfortunately its one of those things that we have to accept when we are part of such a huge crooked empire! Just as we have to accept those countries in Europe who are paid nearly 5 billion in rebates on their annual payments!

Cape Blue

The British rebate is based upon the technicalities of our VAT scheme generating proportionally larger revenues as a percentage of GDP than our EU neighbours. The EU payments are based around VAT national receipts.

Even with the rebate the UK is still the second largest net contributor to the EU's finances and the fourth largest as a percentage of GNI.

I am pro-EU by the way, doesn't mean that the EU doesn't need plenty of oversight and redirecting of its priorities.

ironporer

Regarding both of your points, I would have to agree that Spain (and Portugal to a lesser extent) have been the recipients of a large amount of EU capital and is certainly much better for that. The EU will also benefit in the long run as Spain becomes more and more an economic power- via tourisim, construction, agriculture, industrial and service industries- and consequently coughs up more to the EU coffers for the Bulgarias and Polands to feed on. IMHO- the EU has a lot more to worry about now as the former eastern bloc countries join, and nose up to the trough.