a_f_d

afaik "suitable purpose" does not occur anywhere. The phrase is 'any other purpose which would indicate an intention to stay...' so you almost certainly don't qualify if you're on a two week holiday and then due back at work (in fact iirc you mustn't leave India to take up employment or run a business - which pretty much means you have to be retired or very flexibly self employed - I guess burglars could qualify <bg>)

AndyD 8-)#

P.S. It has occurred to me that some people may be confusing FRO type residency (pink/ red card etc.) and FEMA residency - I don't think they are the same thing at all.
I was advised (and a reading of the statutes bears this out) that FEMA residency is a question of fact, as indeed is PIO status (it is quite possible to qualify for a PIO card but not be a PIO under FEMA for example).

Douglas M

Hi Bryson7,

Suitable purpose would perhaps be vocation, but you would need some evidence of vocational activity to substantiate it. As you say work requires a business or employment visa, although I was incorrectly told by HCI london that i could start a business on an x visa when i received mine.

We now know that as far as FRO and home dept goa is concerned retirement is not a suitable purpose although it does fit the intention to stay for an undetermined period of time Maybe another dept would find it acceptable and certainly in earlier times retirement was accepted by some.

The level of knowledge and interpretation of the law by the individual case officer is also a deciding factor. Has he met his qouta of fines for the day is another factor?

There are massive inconsistencies in interpretation , current and past working practices between the departments concerned and individuals within it. The departments concerned in reverse order are HCI , Home dept and immigration, FRO , RBI d of e. There may also be inter dept rivalries and hidden agendas that we are unaware of.

I dont know if the ability to generate confusion is intentional, a lunatic asylum with the addition of fragrant spices and the odd whiff of putrefaction is the best way to describe the current situation in goa.

There is certainly a lot of face saving going on by the officials concerned and the usual lack of clarity , transparency and objectivity that goes with that face saving.

It is truly a lottery, not entirely of our own making and at the end of the enquiry even if a little poorer , hopefully we will all be a little wiser. (apart from some acronites that is , (You not included) who are destined to encircle the earth for eternity, in a state of self induced oblivion)

regards
douglas

Douglas M

Hi a-f-d,

I agree suitable purpose does not appear in FEMA, but i believe it to be a visa / immigration requirement.

In order to stay in india for the qualifying period it seems that you must fit both criteria. The other problem we face is that some FNs know more about the law regarding immovable property in india than the officials do. That doesnt help us to much. If your executioner can shoot straight, it doesnt really matter if they have an llb or not.

regards
douglas

noni

Hi Andy/Douglas

Please explain to a dumb blonde what is the difference between a pink book residency and FEMA residency. We have pink books, and we did 220 days in the financial year previous to registering.

When seeing our Advocate for the D of E enquiry, we were told we had to have been retired to have "bought"!!. As I have said before this came as a shock to a lot of people. not as many shocks as we have had since.

Wonder what has happened to the Acronites and Milward now?

Regards
Noni

Douglas M

[QUOTE=noni;5133258]Hi Andy/Douglas

Please explain to a dumb blonde what is the difference between a pink book residency and FEMA residency. We have pink books, and we did 220 days in the financial year previous to registering.

When seeing our Advocate for the D of E enquiry, we were told we had to have been retired to have "bought"!!. As I have said before this came as a shock to a lot of people. not as many shocks as we have had since.

Wonder what has happened to the Acronites and Milward now?

Regards
Noni[/QUOTE

HI Noni,

I will bat the first para to a-f-d who appears to know more about this than i do. We could maybe also add in, is there a yet again a different residency criteria for income tax purposes?

As your lawyer and a-f-d says if you have to rush back to work, business or family commitments you can hardly claim to have the intention to stay for an undetermined period of time. Hence the failure of the residency test by most FNs if the d of e apply this part of the residency criteria stringently.

I suspect the acronites are out there somewhere, floating in the ether along with milward.

kind regards
douglas

a_f_d

Noni said
and Douglas said:
Hi,
I'll try a quick answer now and research a fuller version if I get time:
noni, you got your pink book because you intended to stay >180 days and had a visa that let you do that. This meant you were what I called 'FRO (pink book) resident'. It would have been exactly the same if you had no intention of buying property.
Because you 'did 220 days in the financial year previous' (regardless of whether you were 'pink book resident' or not, you had fulfilled one of the FEMA requirements to be 'FEMA resident'. For people not setting up business the other was 'any other purpose which would indicate an intention to stay for an uncertain period' (iirc the bit about also meeting local state requirements was added later). This 'intention' requirement was pretty much ignored until 2006 but was always there.
To go from fact to speculation - it has always seemed to me that an intention to buy residential property is a de facto indication of intention to stay for an uncertain period!

I hope that clarifies things <g> but actually I suspect that it just muddies your waters. The real point is not that there are differences between RBI and Immigration, but that any similarities are more or less a coincindence.

BUT - hold the presses...

a_f_d

STOP PRESS
I have just had a reply to my email to hci - in view of what it says I think it is quite proper to quote from it:
hth AndyD 8-)#

Douglas M

Hi a-f -d,

They still havnt got it right, as a resident FN does not require approval under FEMA as they are permitted to transfer immovable property under the general permission clause section 2 sub section 1 (v) (B). Neither does the goan state govt have any legislation that requires a FN to obtain approval (YET)

However i suppose we must be grateful that they responded at all, they didnt used to.

regards
douglas

noni

:curse: Thanks for your answer - think Douglas should send them an email explaining where they are going wrong and totally confuse them, so much so that they give us all permission to keep our properties. HCI just don't know what they are doing from one minute to the next.

a_f_d

noni, no-one has said you can't keep your property have they?

AndyD 8-)#

Remy-Ireland

Hi Andy,

I think its articles like this one from The Hindu in June 2006 that started a lot of panic among those who bought on a tourist visa.

Goa to confiscate Property bought by foreigners on a Tourist Visa.

http://www.hindu.com/2006/06/04/stor...0401670300.htm

Regards,
Remy

Douglas M

Hi a-f-d and Noni,

I accept that there will be few confiscations as a result of the d of e enquiry but there will be fines. In addition if the FN were considered to be non resident at the time of sale/purchase then the sales deed may be deemed invalid .That means that the FN will no longer have right of occupation of the property and they will have to try and recover the consideration from the original freeholder.

regards
douglas

noni

Hi Remy,
The above heading:- Isn't that the first time we have seen anything stating you cannot buy on a Tourist Visa?
Noni

a_f_d

noni said well lots of people have been saying it but that doesn't make it so. Actually it is well documented that you can't run a business (and buy property) on a tourist visa, which is what I suspect this article is referring to.
The debate continues as to whether you can fulfill FEMA residency on tourist visa(s) - although nowhere official does it say you can't.
AndyD 8-)#

noni

Not that it refers to us, but our Advocate said you could buy on a tourist visa, and then another Advocates have said not. You pay an Advocate and you expect to be guided in the right direction.
Of course, I know that in Goa they are all dysfunctional, but only now after the event and when it is too late to do anything about it.