Unanswerable Prayers - Christopher Hitchens
Sep 6th 2010, 3:51 pm
#16
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Re: Unanswerable Prayers - Christopher Hitchens
Which sort of leaves us with the conclusion that there are bad and good religious people, and bad and good non-religious people. Bad people will use their religion--or refutation of it--for ill, good people will use their religion--or refutation of it--for good.
And then there are Arsenal supporters.
There: less than 100 words, and all in simple language.
And then there are Arsenal supporters.
There: less than 100 words, and all in simple language.
I think some ideologies like Communism and Nazism are religions too...and some religions can be ideologies - they are closely linked.
N.
Sep 6th 2010, 4:33 pm
#17
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Re: Unanswerable Prayers - Christopher Hitchens
Oh come off it man. No one is drawing parallels between you and the fashionable dictator of the moment. I merely illustrated examples of how a number of zealous anti-religious movements were hardly innocent of bloodshed and violence. That you are so easily offended suggests you care more about the matter than you'd like to think.
That said, I agree wholeheartedly that ideology is often a dangerous enemy, whether it takes the form of official atheism or an official religion. Even if religion had somehow never evolved in the history of mankind, we'd still be just as violent and brutal - it'd just be under the auspices of a different form of ideology.
Bahtboy summarises my sentiment towards everything rather nicely.
That said, I agree wholeheartedly that ideology is often a dangerous enemy, whether it takes the form of official atheism or an official religion. Even if religion had somehow never evolved in the history of mankind, we'd still be just as violent and brutal - it'd just be under the auspices of a different form of ideology.
Bahtboy summarises my sentiment towards everything rather nicely.
But Norm on this "board" has only given what has been dished out to nonbelievers for 2000 years and more...it's funny how religion has had millenia of freedom to insult, persecute and murder people of other beliefs and non-belief but when modern people engage in polemics and digging against the total irrationality of faith they are lumped in with communist dictators (as if they were inspired by atheism rather than the lust for power coupled with their corrupt ideology).
As a vehement anti-communist I take offense at the prospect of being lumped with such morally bankrupt scum. My "attacks" are limited to words...people like me are hardly the Taliban. Seems some religious people are just so sensitive because they adhere to systems which cannot stand up to free equiry - that's their problem not mine.
N.
As a vehement anti-communist I take offense at the prospect of being lumped with such morally bankrupt scum. My "attacks" are limited to words...people like me are hardly the Taliban. Seems some religious people are just so sensitive because they adhere to systems which cannot stand up to free equiry - that's their problem not mine.
N.
Sep 6th 2010, 5:30 pm
#18
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Re: Unanswerable Prayers - Christopher Hitchens
The trouble with Christopher Hitchens is that he has been very mobile on his views and opinions.
He is a very gifted essayist and despite sincerity apparently dripping off the page, over his career he has changed his tune more than once. We all have the right to change our minds but Christopher more than abuses that position.
His death may prevent him from changing his mind again. Maybe..
He is a very gifted essayist and despite sincerity apparently dripping off the page, over his career he has changed his tune more than once. We all have the right to change our minds but Christopher more than abuses that position.
His death may prevent him from changing his mind again. Maybe..
N.
Sep 6th 2010, 5:49 pm
#19
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Re: Unanswerable Prayers - Christopher Hitchens
...and on that note, I'm doing the eminently sensible thing and grabbing a beer!
Last edited by Roadking; Sep 6th 2010 at 6:02 pm.
Sep 6th 2010, 5:58 pm
#20
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Re: Unanswerable Prayers - Christopher Hitchens
Even otherwise intelligent people can be brainwashed, unfortunately.
Sep 7th 2010, 4:11 pm
#21
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Re: Unanswerable Prayers - Christopher Hitchens
Oh come off it man. No one is drawing parallels between you and the fashionable dictator of the moment. I merely illustrated examples of how a number of zealous anti-religious movements were hardly innocent of bloodshed and violence. That you are so easily offended suggests you care more about the matter than you'd like to think.
That said, I agree wholeheartedly that ideology is often a dangerous enemy, whether it takes the form of official atheism or an official religion. Even if religion had somehow never evolved in the history of mankind, we'd still be just as violent and brutal - it'd just be under the auspices of a different form of ideology.
Bahtboy summarises my sentiment towards everything rather nicely.
That said, I agree wholeheartedly that ideology is often a dangerous enemy, whether it takes the form of official atheism or an official religion. Even if religion had somehow never evolved in the history of mankind, we'd still be just as violent and brutal - it'd just be under the auspices of a different form of ideology.
Bahtboy summarises my sentiment towards everything rather nicely.
Most zealous movements of any kind tend to involve bloodshed...and we'll always have something to fight over - land, money, water, fuel etc...however religions and ideologies (often the same) create even more excuses to kill, enslave and oppress people...they boil down to a select group claiming monopoly on the truth and expect everyone to subscribe to that "truth" or be treated differently regardless of skin colour, gender and culture..and often this treatment goes as far as violence and murder. I suppose this is why I am a vehement secularist and am opposed to several ideologies (especially ideologies claiming to be religions).
N.
Sep 8th 2010, 5:24 am
#23
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Re: Unanswerable Prayers - Christopher Hitchens
Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? You whinge about being attacked by religious zealots and called all sorts of names as if you're some sort of genuine victim, yet you easily turn around and post 'The uneducated and unintelligent tend to cling to their views desperately and without examination...fearing that to change their tune is to loose face with others.'
The implications are pretty clear when you say something like that.
Like the rest of the sensible people on this bored I am withdrawing all future interest in this thread. It's not going anywhere, it's not worth the time and no one's opinions are going to be changed by any of the parties on it. I'm off to figure out what makes the washing machine tick.
The implications are pretty clear when you say something like that.
Like the rest of the sensible people on this bored I am withdrawing all future interest in this thread. It's not going anywhere, it's not worth the time and no one's opinions are going to be changed by any of the parties on it. I'm off to figure out what makes the washing machine tick.
Plenty of people have actually drawn such parallels with me - on these very boards alone I have been compared to Hitler (a Christian) and the BNP (White Nationalists) to name a couple. I don't loose sleep at night or anything but I reserve the right to get pissed off when I do visit the boards and this subject comes up.
Most zealous movements of any kind tend to involve bloodshed...and we'll always have something to fight over - land, money, water, fuel etc...however religions and ideologies (often the same) create even more excuses to kill, enslave and oppress people...they boil down to a select group claiming monopoly on the truth and expect everyone to subscribe to that "truth" or be treated differently regardless of skin colour, gender and culture..and often this treatment goes as far as violence and murder. I suppose this is why I am a vehement secularist and am opposed to several ideologies (especially ideologies claiming to be religions).
N.
Most zealous movements of any kind tend to involve bloodshed...and we'll always have something to fight over - land, money, water, fuel etc...however religions and ideologies (often the same) create even more excuses to kill, enslave and oppress people...they boil down to a select group claiming monopoly on the truth and expect everyone to subscribe to that "truth" or be treated differently regardless of skin colour, gender and culture..and often this treatment goes as far as violence and murder. I suppose this is why I am a vehement secularist and am opposed to several ideologies (especially ideologies claiming to be religions).
N.
Last edited by Ethos83; Sep 8th 2010 at 5:26 am.
Sep 8th 2010, 6:09 am
#24
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Re: Unanswerable Prayers - Christopher Hitchens
Well, that was fun! While we're on such a good run, et's discuss Politics, then S£x next? 
Sep 8th 2010, 7:26 am
#27
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Sep 8th 2010, 7:26 am
#28
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Sep 8th 2010, 10:55 am
#29
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Re: Unanswerable Prayers - Christopher Hitchens
Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? You whinge about being attacked by religious zealots and called all sorts of names as if you're some sort of genuine victim, yet you easily turn around and post 'The uneducated and unintelligent tend to cling to their views desperately and without examination...fearing that to change their tune is to loose face with others.'
The implications are pretty clear when you say something like that.
Like the rest of the sensible people on this bored I am withdrawing all future interest in this thread. It's not going anywhere, it's not worth the time and no one's opinions are going to be changed by any of the parties on it. I'm off to figure out what makes the washing machine tick.
The implications are pretty clear when you say something like that.
Like the rest of the sensible people on this bored I am withdrawing all future interest in this thread. It's not going anywhere, it's not worth the time and no one's opinions are going to be changed by any of the parties on it. I'm off to figure out what makes the washing machine tick.
I think I've said this many times before but no one forces people to post here or respond to other people. Who are you to say who is a "genuine" victim or not? I was mentally and physically abused by the religious if you must know - and was myself a very serious subscriber to fundamentalism (thanks to brainwashing) for a number of years from my youth right up until my mid twenties.
As for my sounding ridiculous - perhaps if I actually cared about what you think of me and your comprehension of what I post I might formulate some sort of response.
Keep on implicating - I think I will do the decent thing and open up a nice bottle of beer.
Sep 8th 2010, 11:05 am
#30
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Re: Unanswerable Prayers - Christopher Hitchens
Didn't monks invent beer? That's almost compelling evidence of the existence of God!