britexpat76

They were scared of losing, Simple. Personally I would of stolen their ball.

Miss Anne Thrope

That's all true but it is simultaneously true that you will find many of the kindest, most humble people there who will go out of their way to sacrifice their own well-being to help others. That tends to be more common - but not exclusive - among the lower classes.

scrubbedexpat141

Mmm, that is often true.

abbey08

+1

Boomhauer

Absolutely agree with you

Beaverstate

Yes. I think it brings empathy more into play.

Norm_uk

I can understand wanting to keep guest workers separately when are from not so world-wise places but this would have to be in equal standard accommodation and recreation facilities, not taking their passports, allowing conjugal visits/families to come over etc etc.

Labourers in the region are treated worse than blacks under apartheid. No one is asking for full and equal rights to the nationals (you know, like we do in Britain) because we are all clearly guest workers here - but a basic recognition of their humanity would be a good start. Perhaps hiring from more worldly-wise places and paying them a bit more would be a better solution?

N.

Boomhauer

Now why would the locals want to do that when they got what is essentially free and captive workforce. It's almost outright slavery, so they aren't gona give that up unless forced to do so.

When Johan Hari (I think it was Hari?) was in Dubai interviewing a 'progressive' Emirati, Hari brought up the issue of indentured Labour ; the so called liberal/progressive Emirati grew agitated and exclaimed that you need slaves to build stuff and mentioned the Pyramids as an example. I wonder what excuse he will conjure up when told that the Pyramids were NOT built by slaves, but free Egyptians .

“These tombs were built beside the king’s pyramid, which indicates that these people were not by any means slaves,” said Mr Hawass. “If they were slaves, they would not have been able to build their tombs beside their king’s” [The Times]. In addition, Hawass says that the walls of the tombs (which the builders probably built for themselves) bear graffiti like “friends of Khufu (a pharaoh).”

' For Egyptologists like Dieter Wildung, a former director of Berlin’s Egyptian Museum, this is more confirmation than surprise. “The myth of the slaves building pyramids is only the stuff of tabloids and Hollywood…. The world simply could not believe the pyramids were build without oppression and forced labour, but out of loyalty to the pharaohs” [Canadian Press], says Wildung. '

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80...were-free-men/

Norm_uk

Excellent post - and spot on about Egypt. Slaves were certainly used for the crappy jobs but most of the monuments of Egypt were constructed by skilled, free craftsmen.

It always annoys me how we are reminded of the Atlantic slave trade, which only lasted for 400 or so years and ended up with most slaves freed and their descendants living as co-citizens in the West with access to healthcare and welfare few in Sub-Saharan African can aspire towards. Yet the Arabs have engaged in brutal slavery into Africa for the better part of a milenia and still treat many foreigners like slaves. Most of the male slaves were castrated and the females used as maids and sex slaves...few Arabs will even admit this. Hubris on a cultural scale unlike anything seen anywhere else in my opinion.

Anyone once some smart arse in the West or Far East develops oil replacement technology we'll see who's the clever ones won't we?

N.

seven seas

LOL

Boomhauer

I don't mean to imply that Britain doesn't have a lot of horrors in their closet in regards to the Subcon , cause they certainly do; exploitation , brutal conditions, genocide/mass starvation etc..

But the West started to enact human rights and civil liberties. So isn't it a strong possibility that Britain would have turned the page on the SubCon and started to curtail some of the Imperialistic behaviour and act more humanely.

Miss Anne Thrope

Dame Hari has been thoroughly discredited.

In fairness, I thought that particular piece he wrote for The Indy was a pretty accurate portrayal of much of Dubai life even though he made up a lot of the details (memorably the Canadian lady living in her Land Rover). The one unpleasant part was where he wound up sweet old Sultan Al Qassimi, a genuinely decent and liberal bloke, to get his (doubtless embellished if not entirely fabricated) quotes about the pyramids that you reference. Even from the way Hari wrote the piece you could see he had completely unfairly baited him. Al Qassimi has been a vocal proponent of improving workers' conditions in this region, bravely so, considering he is a member of the Sharjah royal family.

And while the idea that the pyramids were largely built by paid workers has now moved into the mainstream, there was clearly still a great deal of coercion involved. And let's face it, Zahi Hawass is about as reliable as Johann Hari as a source, troubling though it may be to cast doubt on a man of such substance that he has his own clothes line (not the kind you have in your garden); for "the man who values self-discovery, historicism and adventure" no less...

Anyway, Hari's sneaky little piece of gotcha journalism only had the effect of undermining genuine attempts to improve labour conditions here. In a rigidly hierarchical, honour and shame based culture, confrontation (especially when it is deviously misreported) is counter-productive. That does not mean we should do nothing, just do it smarter and more effectively. Pontificating about the cultural superiority of the west, even if it may be true, is only going to entrench attitudes.

Khaleeji culture may be a couple of centuries - a mere blink of humanity's historical eye - behind liberal western thinking but sanctimoniously pointing our fingers is only going to ensure it remains so for a lot longer. None of us is without some blood on our hands over history. Slavery has been part of human culture for millennia (for the benefit of semi-literate posters: note the spelling and that the singular is millennium). Gulf Arabs continued slaving into the 20th century to their shame but the scale and cruelty of their activities never came close to the massive quasi-genocidal greed of the Atlantic slave trade. After all, black Khaleejis with local tribal names and positions would hardly be so prevalent if their ancestors had been castrated, now would they? [And anybody making tendentious claims like that should provide decent reference sources at least].

Engagement is the key to moving the social and cultural norms in the right direction. Most of us know very decent and kind locals who also disavow the mistreatment of foreign workers, so clearly there is already plenty of fertile ground to work on. Retreating to our expat bubbles to decry "those awful people" helps nobody. We live here. We benefit from those mistreated workers also. What have you [random BE forum member] done for them lately?

seven seas

+1

seven seas

thanks for the clarification.
I actually think the British Empire would have turned even more savage, as all capitalist empires are wont to do when threatened, but nobody can say for sure, can they?

Meow

From my own experiences many expats pay lipservice to those less fortunate and are simply not prepared to actually do anything other than moan.

Attempts to claim the high moral ground mean nothing without any action.