Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 11407864)

Depends, do my shoes need cleaning?

In all seriousness though, I'm just genuinely excited about this whole affair. A bit sick of the bollocks but excited that something monumental might be around the corner. Never have I seen so much news, input, posts, comments or interaction with the public. It's properly involving (unless you can't vote) and has caught the interest of the masses.

Originally Posted by Dumbo (Post 11407879)

Personally I will be happy for Scotland to do whatever they want. I hope they stay part of the UK, but if they want out, so be it. As long as the split is fair to both sides on issues such as national debt. If they go their own way hopefully the Bank of England will also refuse to prop up the currency if Scotland chooses the 'pound'.

But my real concern is who will bail them out in 2 - 5 years once Salmond and his cronies have siphoned off all the money to them and theirs. It won't be Europe.

What will the real Scots affected by this decision (not those earning a fortune in foreign countries) think in a few months time when their taxes are rising, property prices are falling and there is little investment in the places where they live. Will that still be Westminsters fault?

From a selfish perspective I can see benefits if there is a split, arse falling out of the pound, property prices plummeting, unfortunately for the people not living in a foreign country the repercussions of a split could be disastrous. Whilst people may think they know exactly what will happen, the full effects will be many and varied and impossible to forsee.

Having said all that its not an Englishmans decision to make and I respect whatever choice an individual Scot makes. I just hope this is not just about getting one over on Westminster and London which is what it seems like in the last few days.

BTW did anyone see the article about Boris Johnson? He intends to hold a self referendum to decide whether he will declare himself as an independent country in 2017:



Boris Johnson To Hold A Referendum On Becoming An Independent Country

Originally Posted by shiva (Post 11407908)

Just to clarify, Scotland will not become independent on Friday. The date has been proposed for March 2016 but has obviously yet to be clarified.

Salmond may not win a Scottish general election which is what this is all about. Labour if they sort their shit out are far more likely to win.

There is already a lack of investment and has been for some time, hence the diss affectation with the current state of affairs house prices are similarly non reflective of the picture down south

The one over on Westminster view is a largely media construct.

Originally Posted by Dumbo (Post 11407929)

Didn't I just read that per head of population Scotland recieve more than England and Wales? >10k for Scotland and about 8.5k for England. The Barnett formula its called.
yes and it doesnt include oil and gas revenues which when included show that in fact scotland contribute about 0.7% more per year than it receives and has done so every year for the last 33 years. The only area that contributes more is London.

Salmond wants to get his grubby hands on some oil money, he is not thinking about the future of Scots, if he did for 5 minutes he would see that the potential risks far outway the potential benefits.
And yet he is not the prime minister of an independent scotland, its not his oil money and nor does he carry more than 1 vote. Yes a good portion of Scots would like to see that money distributed in a different way, as is their right under all international laws. It is YOUR opinion that the risks outweigh rewards but it is a view that is not shared by at least 40% of scots and possibly a lot more.

My understanding is that Scotland would have some almost immediate powers, including the ability to adjust its tax rates upto 10p in the pound, whilst still receiving the funding from the treasury based on the above formula.

Originally Posted by shiva (Post 11407952)

Yes more powers are timetabled but these are not guaranteed and at any moment the scottish parliament can be disbanded by westminster for any reason it sees fit.

The right to self determination is written into the UN Charter and Declaration of Human Rights, it is a right now well accepted as reasonable and beyond question in most countries outside of the totalitarian states.
Piecemeal powers are not that right especially when they have no legal guarentee

Originally Posted by Millhouse (Post 11408005)

I wonder if England can stuff them with RBS.

Originally Posted by Ethos82 (Post 11408260)

The referendum does seem to represent the best of democracy: a huge vote turnout, spirited and informative campaigning and everyone deeply involved the future of their country.
And it also represents the worst of democracy: a deeply divided country, families and friends ripped apart, extraordinarily aggressive campaigning and bullying, deliberate obfuscation of information, ugly nationalism, and whatever the results there will be an enormous and embittered minority that will feel permanently marginalised.

Good luck, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. You'll need it.

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy (Post 11408386)

I know what you're saying and that my voice is too late, but I still find it hugely iniquitous that 4 million British people (plus a fair number of foreigners) should have the opportunity to deeply affect the future of 62 million British people.

Originally Posted by shiva (Post 11408389)

That feeling is why more than a few will vote yes.

58 million other people currently decide on scotlands future not the 5 that live there

Neither is fair

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy (Post 11408419)

I know what you mean, but the same goes for every county or region in England. Are Scots really so different?

Originally Posted by shiva (Post 11407952)

Yes more powers are timetabled but these are not guaranteed and at any moment the scottish parliament can be disbanded by westminster for any reason it sees fit.

The right to self determination is written into the UN Charter and Declaration of Human Rights, it is a right now well accepted as reasonable and beyond question in most countries outside of the totalitarian states.
Piecemeal powers are not that right especially when they have no legal guarentee

Originally Posted by Inselaffen (Post 11408581)

Pity they won't offer that right to the islands